Flaw in the GL? [Software]
sorry for the confusing post.
Summary of CIs of the 50331 sim’s passing the unrounded criterion:
Unrd.lo Unrd.hi Rd.lo Rd.hi
Min. :1.03984217 Min. :1.15101402 Min. :1.03980000 Min. :1.15100000
1st Qu.:1.13630237 1st Qu.:1.23050864 1st Qu.:1.13630000 1st Qu.:1.23050000
Median :1.15065573 Median :1.23972299 Median :1.15070000 Median :1.23970000
Mean :1.15006990 Mean :1.23640877 Mean :1.15006972 Mean :1.23640889
3rd Qu.:1.16470993 3rd Qu.:1.24556820 3rd Qu.:1.16470000 3rd Qu.:1.24560000
Max. :1.22939131 Max. :1.24999989 Max. :1.22940000 Max. :1.25000000
Summary of CIs of the 50503 sim’s passing the rounded criterion:
Unrd.lo Unrd.hi Rd.lo Rd.hi
Min. :1.03984217 Min. :1.15101402 Min. :1.0398000 Min. :1.15100000
1st Qu.:1.13631513 1st Qu.:1.23056103 1st Qu.:1.1363000 1st Qu.:1.23060000
Median :1.15069540 Median :1.23976572 Median :1.1507000 Median :1.23980000
Mean :1.15011128 Mean :1.23645515 Mean :1.1501111 Mean :1.23645518
3rd Qu.:1.16475001 3rd Qu.:1.24561372 3rd Qu.:1.1647500 3rd Qu.:1.24560000
Max. :1.22939131 Max. :1.25004974 Max. :1.2294000 Max. :1.25000000
❝ ❝ Unrounded.lo Unrounded.hi Rd.lo Rd.hi
❝ ❝ 1.14406215516423 1.25000008857710 1.1441 1.2500
❝ ❝ …
❝ ❝ 1.16009942086582 1.25004974319996 1.1601 1.2500
❝
❝ I'm not certain if I understand your numbers given. How do the above correspond to below? Numbers from cases which were judged BE if rounded and not BE if not rounded?
❝ ❝ Unrounded.lo Unrounded.hi Rounded.lo Rounded.hi
❝ ❝ Min. :1.11998223 Min. :1.25000009 Min. :1.12000000 Min. :1.25
❝ ❝ 1st Qu.:1.14730961 1st Qu.:1.25001184 1st Qu.:1.14730000 1st Qu.:1.25
❝ ❝ Median :1.16346327 Median :1.25002528 Median :1.16345000 Median :1.25
❝ ❝ Mean :1.16222013 Mean :1.25002554 Mean :1.16221977 Mean :1.25
❝ ❝ 3rd Qu.:1.17608605 3rd Qu.:1.25003838 3rd Qu.:1.17610000 3rd Qu.:1.25
❝ ❝ Max. :1.20299871 Max. :1.25004974 Max. :1.20300000 Max. :1.25
The list of the the 172 studies failing the unrounded but passing the rounded criterion above were ordered by the unrounded upper CL. So the lowest was 1.2500000885771 and the highest 1.25004974319996. This matches the summary above.
❝ ❝ Mr X will tell me “Nice simulations proving the patient’s risk is not maintained.”
❝ Augmented with the reply “If and only if one uses your (assuming Mister X to be a regulator) f*#*g rule of rounding the CI's.”
I would try to use a different wording – likely after consulting our capt’n.
❝ BTW: My original question was more concerned with empirical alpha>0.05 significant without rounding. I wouldn't expect such cases to be real. Otherwise the theory behind our BE statistics is wrong.
I wouldn’t say simulations disprove theory here. The convergence is slow (see the plot for Method B). Significant results might be pure chance.
❝ BTW2: There is a question that bothers me, every time I think about it:
❝ assuming BE if
❝ 0.8 ≤ lCL and uCL ≤ 1.25 (I)
❝ or better
❝ 0.8 < lCL and uCL < 1.25 (II)
.
Ouch, that hurts! Wellek (2003), Patterson & Jones (2006), Hauschke et al. (2007), Chow and Liu (2009):
$$\begin{matrix}
H_0:\mu_\textrm{T}-\mu_\textrm{R}\,{\color{Red}\leq}\,\theta_\textrm{L}\;\textrm{or}\;\mu_\textrm{T}\,{\color{Red}\geq}\,\theta_\textrm{U}\\
H_\textrm{a}:\theta_\textrm{L}\,{\color{Green}<}\,\mu_\textrm{T}-\mu_\textrm{R}\,{\color{Green}<}\theta_\textrm{U}
\end{matrix}$$Minority report*:$$-\theta_\textrm{A}\,{\color{Red}\leq}\,\mu_\textrm{T}-\mu_\textrm{R}\,{\color{Red}\leq}\,\,\theta_\textrm{A}$$
❝ At least in formulating the bioequivalence alternative hypothesis it is always written:
❝ Θ1< µT/µR < Θ2
Yep, based on the above.
❝ and the corresponding two one-sided t-statistics have to be tl < -t(1-α,df) and tu > t(1-α,df). Does this transform really to (I) for the confidence interval inclusion rule?
No. Transforms definitely into (II).
❝ The EMA guidance is here clear: "To be inside the acceptance interval the lower bound should be ≥ 80.00% when rounded to two decimal places and the upper bound should be ≤ 125.00% when rounded to two decimal places." But the regulatory point of view is not necessarily the scientific one as we noticed more than once.
Wonderful. You discovered a flaw in the GL! According to the model BE should not be [0.8, 1.25] (borders inclusive) but ]0.8, 1.25[ (borders exclusive).
❝ In case of no rounding this doesn't make much difference since lCL=0.8 and uCL=1.25 (without rounding) are obtained with probability of nearly zero. But in case of rounding ...
¡Fantástico!
unrounded rnd. (commerc.) rnd. (R)
[80,125] ]80,125[ [80,125] ]80,125[ [80,125] ]80,125[
79.900 – – – – – –
79.995 – – + – + –
79.999 – – + – + –
80.000 + – + – + –
80.001 + + + – + –
80.005 + + + + + –
80.010 + + + + + +
124.900 + + + + + +
124.995 + + + – + –
124.999 + + + – + –
125.000 + – + – + –
125.001 – – + – + –
125.005 – – – – + –
125.010 – – – – – –
- Verbeeck R, Musuamba FT. The Revised 2010 EMA Guideline for the Investigation of Bioequivalence for Immediate Release Oral Formulations with Systemic Action. J Pharm Pharmaceut Sci. 2012; 15(3): 376–8. online
P.S.: Another goodie from the FDA (see this post; downscaling the AR for NTIDs). Have a close look at this line of code:
theta=((log(1.11111))/0.1)**2;
Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна!
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Helmut Schütz
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The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮
Science Quotes
Complete thread:
- Rounding Helmut 2013-01-01 16:51 [Software]
- Rounding d_labes 2013-01-02 12:51
- Rounding Helmut 2013-01-04 17:35
- Rounding d_labes 2013-01-05 19:25
- Rounding Helmut 2013-01-05 20:13
- Sim’s are sim’s are sim’s d_labes 2013-01-05 20:57
- Another vicious circle Helmut 2013-01-06 02:21
- Where all these numbers came from? d_labes 2013-01-07 15:52
- Flaw in the GL?Helmut 2013-01-07 17:29
- Flaw in the GL? d_labes 2013-01-08 11:44
- What a mess! Helmut 2013-01-08 19:08
- What a mess! d_labes 2013-01-09 10:33
- What a mess! Helmut 2013-01-09 15:18
- What a mess! d_labes 2013-01-09 10:33
- What a mess! Helmut 2013-01-08 19:08
- Flaw in the GL? d_labes 2013-01-08 11:44
- Flaw in the GL?Helmut 2013-01-07 17:29
- Where all these numbers came from? d_labes 2013-01-07 15:52
- Rounding Helmut 2013-01-05 20:13
- Rounding d_labes 2013-01-05 19:25
- Rounding Helmut 2013-01-04 17:35
- Rounding ElMaestro 2013-01-02 16:12
- Abandon rounding Helmut 2013-01-02 17:04
- Rounding yjlee168 2013-01-05 23:15
- Rounding d_labes 2013-01-02 12:51