kimhuang ☆ China, 2023-10-14 11:19 (366 d 23:52 ago) Posting: # 23752 Views: 3,415 |
|
How do open-label BE trials maintain blindness until the database is locked? Holding a data review meeting before DBL to discuss whether PK parameters (such as Pre-dose concentration, Abnormal PK concentration profiles, λz estimation, %AUCextrap etc.) are included in the analysis set (without treatment assigment) will have risk of potential unblinding? Edit: Category changed; see also this post #1. [Helmut] |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2023-10-14 12:40 (366 d 22:32 ago) @ kimhuang Posting: # 23753 Views: 2,925 |
|
Hi Kim, the bioanalytical part has to be blinded anyway. I recommend to perform NCA in a blinded manner as well (i.e., sort the data by period and subject ). Once you are done, lock the results and join the randomization (common keys: subject , period ) and treatment .For an example see this presentation (Case 1, slides 4–7). If NCA would have been performed unblinded (i.e., by treatment) the carry-over likely would not have been detected. — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
kimhuang ☆ China, 2023-10-14 13:53 (366 d 21:19 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 23754 Views: 2,990 |
|
❝ For an example see this presentation (Case 1, slides 4–7). If NCA would have been performed unblinded (i.e., by treatment) the carry-over likely would not have been detected. Dear Helmut, Thank you very much! what does PPT slides 11 means? – Blinded review of data for irregular profiles? • EMA – According the Bioanalytical Method Validation Guideline measured results are ‘carved from stone’ » Exclusion of data only possible if documented error » Not even repeated analysis acceptable • FDA – Was acceptable until 2022 » Exclusion after repeated analysis possible if defined by SOP – Currently like EMA In China, it's common to discuss PK parameters (without treatment assignment, such as pre-dose concentration, abnormal PK concentration profiles, λz estimation, %AUCextrap etc.) to decide analysis set in data review meeting before database lock, is it still compliant with regulatory? Edit: Full quote removed. Please delete everything from the text of the original poster which is not necessary in understanding your answer; see also this post #5! [Helmut] |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2023-10-15 12:26 (365 d 22:45 ago) @ kimhuang Posting: # 23757 Views: 2,883 |
|
Hi Kim, ❝ what does PPT slides 11 means? Profiles like the left ones of Slide 9 are physiologically simply not possible. We re-analyzed them (which is nowadays no more acceptable according to the EMA’s and the FDA’s rules). All concentrations were confirmed. We suspected a sample mix-up at the clinical site (transferring plasma samples after centrifugation). But how to confirm that? Initially we thought of DNA testing but plasma doesn’t contain cellular stuff any more. Next we considered looking at lab-values. It would be unlikely that two subjects had similar ones. Unfortunately the anticoagulant was citrate and we could only measure γ–GT and albumine. The right panel of Slide 9 showed a similar pattern than the drug concentrations and thus, confirmed the mix-up. Slide 10 shows what would have happen when switching the suspect values. Of course, that’s not allowed. It was a pilot study and therefore, we didn’t care. This drug is subjected to polymorphic metabolism. The within-subject variability is low (CV ≈15%) and hence, studies are performed in small sample sizes. On the other hand, between-subject variability is large (CV ≈75%). Therefore, patients are dose-titrated for effect. In a pivotal study such a mix-up would be a disaster. Neither excluding the suspected concentrations nor the subjects is allowed. The study would fail because the variability would go through the ceiling. At the joint EGA/EMA Symposium on Bioequivalence (London, 1 June 2010) about the BE-guideline Gerald Beuerle of ratiopharm presented an example, where – due to an obviuous mix-up – a study would pass. The study would fail if the two suspect concentrations or the subjects would be excluded. Members of the EMA’s Pharmacokinetics Working Party (PKWP) responded in unison that it is not acceptable and the product approved. Then nothing kept me in my chair. I stood up and said, “The EMA is a serious risk to public health!” This did not win me any friends in the regulatory community, I guess. ❝ In China, it's common to discuss PK parameters (without treatment assignment, such as pre-dose concentration, abnormal PK concentration profiles, λz estimation, %AUCextrap etc.) to decide analysis set in data review meeting before database lock, is it still compliant with regulatory? — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
kimhuang ☆ China, 2023-10-16 02:43 (365 d 08:29 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 23759 Views: 2,835 |
|
Dear Helmut, Thank you very much for your detailed explanation, these stories are very interesting, gaving me a deeper understanding! ❝ ❝ In China, it's common to discuss PK parameters (without treatment assignment, such as pre-dose concentration, abnormal PK concentration profiles, λz estimation, %AUCextrap etc.) to decide analysis set in data review meeting before database lock, is it still compliant with regulatory? ❝ Fine, makes sense scientifically. We did that for decades. But regulations ≠ science. At least for the FDA and EMA a blinded review of PK data is no more allowed – except assessing pre-dose concentrations. We are even allowed to re-analyze those. Schizophrenic, IMHO. Now, how we can to handle λz estimation (eg, R square <0.8) and %AUCextrap etc (<80%)? Nothing to do, just include all subject in primary analysis? And exclude such subject as sensitivity analysis? Thank you very much! Edit: Full quote removed. Please delete everything from the text of the original poster which is not necessary in understanding your answer; see also this post #5! [Helmut] |
ElMaestro ★★★ Denmark, 2023-10-14 19:39 (366 d 15:32 ago) @ kimhuang Posting: # 23755 Views: 2,876 |
|
Hi kimhaung, ❝ How do open-label BE trials maintain blindness until the database is locked? I had a small coughing fit reading this line Can I ask:
— Pass or fail! ElMaestro |
kimhuang ☆ China, 2023-10-15 02:56 (366 d 08:16 ago) @ ElMaestro Posting: # 23756 Views: 2,869 |
|
Dear ElMaestro, reply as follows: ❝ 1. Who do you want to keep blind and why? Monitor, PI, bioanalytical staff, QA, sponsor, PK staff, statistics staff, pharmacy staff, clinical staff etc? ❝ 2. Are the people who create the rand. code also the people who do NCA? is it the same people who do stats? ❝ 3. Who has access to the rand. code? I do not mean who should have access. ❝ 4. Do some of the staff with access to the rand. code also undertake other functions by any chance? Edit: Standard quotes restored; see also this post #8. [Helmut] |
dshah ★★ India, 2023-10-17 11:25 (363 d 23:47 ago) @ kimhuang Posting: # 23760 Views: 2,744 |
|
Hi kimhuang! ❝ Per protocol, bioanalytical staff is blinded,others is not mentioned in protocol, but study team discuss PK parameters (without treatment assignment,such as Pre-dose concentration, abnormal PK concentration profiles, λz estimation, %AUCextrap etc.) to decide analysis set in data review meeting before database lock. So there are no SOP w.r.t. pre-dose concentration, abnormal PK concentration, λz estimation? Generally QA goes ahead with protocol inclusion/exclusion criteria and SOP of BA. ❝ ❝ 3. Who has access to the rand. code? I do not mean who should have access. ❝ As it's an open-label BE study, CRF collect treatment sequence, so study team can access to the treatment assigment. Does BA team also have access to CRF? Then how it is blinded? Regards, Divyen |
kimhuang ☆ China, 2023-10-18 02:50 (363 d 08:22 ago) @ dshah Posting: # 23762 Views: 2,663 |
|
❝ So there are no SOP w.r.t. pre-dose concentration, abnormal PK concentration, λz estimation? Generally QA goes ahead with protocol inclusion/exclusion criteria and SOP of BA. there's no SOP about handing these cases, case-by-case discuss in blinded data review meeting. ❝ Does BA team also have access to CRF? Then how it is blinded? BA is blinded. Edit: Full quote removed. Please delete everything from the text of the original poster which is not necessary in understanding your answer; see also this post #5! [Helmut] |