Achievwin ★★ US, 2023-07-05 20:38 (437 d 01:44 ago) Posting: # 23655 Views: 3,303 |
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Hi Is there any SAS or R-Macro or program for performing RSABR in a 3-period 2-sequnce balanced replicate design? or how a doubt given below can be clarified? A 3-period, 2-sequence (TRR or RTT) is proposed assuming it is a balanced design! how to clarify the reference-scaled average bioequivalence approach will be applied to the proposed sequences. Thinking Rationale: was that the design was preferred in the current statistical approaches guidance current SAS macros ignore any missing sequence and provide RSABE conclusions with existing macros and secondly any unknown carry-over effect is best addressed in the current sequence by balance effect. Any input is appreciated. |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2023-07-06 10:46 (436 d 11:35 ago) @ Achievwin Posting: # 23657 Views: 2,951 |
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Hi Achievwin, ❝ Is there any SAS or R-Macro or program for performing RSABR in a 3-period 2-sequnce balanced replicate design?
❝ or how a doubt given below can be clarified? ❝ A 3-period, 2-sequence (TRR or RTT) is proposed assuming it is a balanced design! how to clarify the reference-scaled average bioequivalence approach will be applied to the proposed sequences. ❝ Thinking Rationale: was that the design was preferred in the current statistical approaches guidance current SAS macros ignore any missing sequence and provide RSABE conclusions with existing macros and secondly any unknown carry-over effect is best addressed in the current sequence by balance effect. — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
mittyri ★★ Russia, 2023-07-06 16:07 (436 d 06:15 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 23658 Views: 2,888 |
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Hi Achievwin and Helmut, ❝ Also doable in R (I think Detlew posted sumfink back in the day; too lazy to search). here it is. The best ever. FDA guys were happy. — Kind regards, Mittyri |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2023-07-07 16:41 (435 d 05:41 ago) @ mittyri Posting: # 23660 Views: 2,827 |
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Hi mittyri, THX for discovering this gem! I have a problem (both in Phoenix/WinNonlin, R, and – likely – in SAS as well). To calculate swR the FDA wants a linear model (in SAS-lingo proc glm ) of repeated reference data with subject as a factor. However, in a 3-period full replicate they are all in one sequence and the model collapses. Now what?If you want to play with data sets
— Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
mittyri ★★ Russia, 2023-07-07 18:04 (435 d 04:18 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 23661 Views: 2,871 |
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Hi Helmut! ❝ I have a problem (both in Phoenix/WinNonlin, R, and – likely – in SAS as well). To calculate swR the FDA wants a linear model (in SAS-lingo So the problem is here proc glm data=scavbe; I would look at the original formula \(s_\text{wR}^2=\Large\frac{\sum\limits_{i=1}^{m}\sum_\limits{j=1}^{n_i}\left(D_{ij}-\overline{D}_{i\,\cdot}\right)^2}{2\left(n-m\right)}\) So it is impossible to get D for `TRT` sequence. Could we just omit one sequence here?— Kind regards, Mittyri |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2023-07-07 22:06 (435 d 00:16 ago) @ mittyri Posting: # 23662 Views: 3,010 |
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Hi mittyri, ❝ I would look at the original formula ❝ \(s_\text{wR}^2=\Large\frac{\sum\limits_{i=1}^{m}\sum_\limits{j=1}^{n_i}\left(D_{ij}-\overline{D}_{i\,\cdot}\right)^2}{2\left(n-m\right)}\) ❝ So it is impossible to get D for `TRT` sequence. Could we just omit one sequence here? A first attempt. .script at the end.
— Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
mittyri ★★ Russia, 2023-07-08 00:52 (434 d 21:30 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 23663 Views: 2,823 |
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Hi Helmut! ❝ if (ds == "per4full") { ❝ # now the equivalent of SAS code for R-R, dlat analysis ❝ m2 <- lm(RR ~ seq, data = data_r) ❝ dfRR <- m2$df.residual ❝ s2wR <- summary(m2)$sigma^2 / 2 ❝ } else { ❝ # workaround because lm() with only one sequence not possible ❝ # make a column with intra-subject variances ❝ for (i in 1:nrow(data_r)) { ❝ data_r$varR[i] <- var(c(data_r$logpk.R1[i], ❝ data_r$logpk.R2[i]), na.rm = TRUE) ❝ } ❝ dfRR <- nrow(data_r) - 2 ❝ s2wR <- mean(data_r$varR) ❝ } I suggest to substitute the workaround to dinosaur method:
sumsq <- 0 at least it gives exactly the same results as classical one. Yes, ABE is still under fire, the best approach you've found is here Sorry, right now don't have a clue regarding differences with Winnonlin in RSABE part — Kind regards, Mittyri |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2023-07-08 14:15 (434 d 08:07 ago) @ mittyri Posting: # 23664 Views: 2,718 |
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Hi mittyri, ❝ I suggest to substitute the workaround to dinosaur method: ❝ […] ❝ at least it gives exactly the same results as classical one. THX, that’s what’s given in the formula of the guidance. Avoing its overhead, more than 10times faster than lm() . ❝ Yes, ABE is still under fire, the best approach you've found is here Of course, this model is not exactly the one of the FDA. Seemingly (always?) a bit more conservative. From a regulatory perspective this should be acceptable. But what if the FDA’s passes and the other fails? Sponsors will not like that. New -script at the end. Allows also testing with local files. Below always RSABE followed by ABE. Results are similar but not the same.
❝ Sorry, right now don't have a clue regarding differences with Winnonlin in RSABE part So do I… We cross-validated it, right? It’s funny that the FDA’s draft guidance of December 2022 states: For example, a three-period design [TRT|RTR], could be used. A fully replicated design can estimate the subject-by-formulation interaction variance components. True, but not with the FDA’s code.PS @Achievwin: You keep us busy.
— Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
mittyri ★★ Russia, 2023-07-09 23:45 (432 d 22:37 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 23665 Views: 2,696 |
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Hi Helmut! Got a flashback. Take a look: data_r should not be used for dlat AND ilat (if the goal is to mimic Phoenix template where dlat is calculated for all data where RR is available, not only full periods data) — Kind regards, Mittyri |
Achievwin ★★ US, 2023-07-10 22:43 (431 d 23:39 ago) @ mittyri Posting: # 23669 Views: 2,630 |
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PS @Achievwin: You keep us busy. Thats why you called Expert Gurus |