Relaxation ★ Germany, 2022-12-02 16:53 (741 d 14:50 ago) Posting: # 23376 Views: 9,462 |
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Good afternoon everybody. Although I assume that most of us have subscribed to the FDA newsletter, I wanted to post that FDA just notified that the new "Statistical Approaches to Establishing Bioequivalence" was made available. From a quick once over interesting topics included . Direct link to guidance page, Edit: Changed to the download page because your link triggered a spam-filter. [Helmut] |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2022-12-02 17:43 (741 d 14:00 ago) @ Relaxation Posting: # 23377 Views: 8,607 |
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Hi Relaxation, THX for noticing us. ❝ From a quick once over interesting topics included . Indeed.
— Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
jag009 ★★★ NJ, 2022-12-02 18:58 (741 d 12:44 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 23378 Views: 8,525 |
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Hi Helmut, ❝ ❝ From a quick once over interesting topics included . Almost a complete overhaul. Very detailed. I notice something, they removed the min sample size requirement of n=12 (Unless it's written in later part of the doc) J |
BRB ☆ Canada, 2022-12-02 19:20 (741 d 12:23 ago) @ jag009 Posting: # 23379 Views: 8,487 |
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Hi J, No, it's still there. See lines 260-261: The number of evaluable subjects in a PK BE study should not be less than 12. For highly variable drug products, a minimum of 24 subjects are recommended for BE assessment. ❝ Almost a complete overhaul. Very detailed. I notice something, they removed the min sample size requirement of n=12 (Unless it's written in later part of the doc) |
mittyri ★★ Russia, 2022-12-02 21:38 (741 d 10:04 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 23380 Views: 8,592 |
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Dear Helmut, Dear All! what bothers me (1095-1096): Alternative software could also be used if same results are generated as in PROC MIXED in SAS. what? How could I know if I am not equipped with Power To Know God Blessed Software®? — Kind regards, Mittyri |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2022-12-02 23:30 (741 d 08:12 ago) @ mittyri Posting: # 23381 Views: 8,464 |
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Hi Mittyri, ❝ ❝ ❝ what? How could I know if I am not equipped with Power To Know God Blessed Software®? Three options.
— Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
mittyri ★★ Russia, 2022-12-02 23:52 (741 d 07:50 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 23382 Views: 8,467 |
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Hi Helmut, ❝ Three options. ❝
I'll cross fingers to have that omitted from the final guidance (even if I do not plan to submit to FDA anything; FDA guidelines are getting used to penetrate across the world). ❝ As an aside: ❝ How to assess ‘outliers’ in RSABE? But I know that your question is not trivial and deeper than that. PS: what is wrong with the format of cited list? — Kind regards, Mittyri |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2022-12-03 00:11 (741 d 07:32 ago) @ mittyri Posting: # 23383 Views: 8,483 |
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Hi Mittyri, ❝ I'll cross fingers to have that omitted from the final guidance (even if I do not plan to submit to FDA anything; FDA guidelines are getting used to penetrate across the world). Somebody at the FDA might have pushed the panic button. Behind the curtains possibly GBHI and ICH M13 are driving forces. Harmonization comes at a price. ❝ ❝ How to assess ‘outliers’ in RSABE? ❝ the only one method I can recall is described by Mr.Schall with coauthors ❝ But I know that your question is not trivial and deeper than that. Yep. At least the EMA considered Schall et al. as too ‘statistical’ [sic] and recommended my joke of box plots. Not the slightest idea what the FDA expects. ❝ PS: what is wrong with the format of cited list? As it ever was. Sorry. Christian Seiler’s PHP StringParser class is of 2008 and can’t handle lists properly. The only other I found is not compatible with PHP ≥7.0…— Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
Achievwin ★★ US, 2023-02-07 08:23 (674 d 23:19 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 23442 Views: 6,445 |
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SAS strikes back is a misnomer. on multiple occasions I was told you are free to use whatever the software you want to use, agency will carry out their own analysis and if your values are matching with their analysis (not too far variation - you don't have match exactly to 6th decimal point with SAS,,,, In case of doubt the agency will ask for 1) dataset used, 2) macro with 3) ease of use instructions. If you are using SAS or SPSS, or R, or Phoenix we should be good as ageny scientists are equally proficient in these programs. Being an enthusiast I always did a mini validation across standard and alternate software under a pre-defined validation protocol, this was my ace whenever there is a question (not having any validation is crime - having some validation you may get slap on the wrist) |
mittyri ★★ Russia, 2022-12-07 17:26 (736 d 14:16 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 23389 Views: 8,117 |
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Hi Helmut and All! regarding FDA encourages generic and new drug applicants to propose and discuss novel methodologies (e.g., model-based BE…) (lines 56-58)are you reading this as a projection of VBE or some broader successful trends exist? — Kind regards, Mittyri |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2022-12-10 11:13 (733 d 20:30 ago) @ mittyri Posting: # 23397 Views: 8,069 |
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Hi Mittyri, ❝ FDA encourages generic and new drug applicants to propose and discuss novel methodologies (e.g., model-based BE…) ❝ ❝ are you reading this as a projection of VBE or some broader successful trends exist? Perhaps. See this post refering to the EMA’s Methodology Working Party. Aren’t these points contradictory?
— Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
mittyri ★★ Russia, 2023-01-11 16:32 (701 d 15:11 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 23421 Views: 7,092 |
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Hi Helmut and all! just want to share model based approaches FDA is working on with different scentists. Uppsala Universitet raises the flag: Hooker #1 Hooker #2 He claims that model averaging should help in case of troubles with model building. Kathrin Moellenhof with colleagues (another giant there: France Mentre) are attacking classical BE approaches from other side. Interesting results of TIE estimation. Simulation-based only. In PubMed you can see multiple papers referencing this article. — Kind regards, Mittyri |
SMA ☆ Europe, 2023-01-17 10:41 (695 d 21:01 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 23425 Views: 7,000 |
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Dear all ❝ • EMA does not exclude use of model informed BE, especially in cases when in vivo BE studies cannot be simply conducted in healthy subjects. ❝ • When model-based BE is used, model evaluation should include technical and clinical validation of the model as well as assessment of its applicability. Please note this interesting and very recent publication by some European regulators (incl members of MWP), which IMHO does not contain solutions yet, but establishes the principle that there is some openness to discuss this topic with EMA: Manolis, E, García-Arieta, A, Lindahl, A, Kotzagiorgis, E, Limberg, J, Holte, Ø, Paixao, P, Versantvoort, C, Tshinanu, FM, Blake, K, Van Den Heuvel, M. Using mechanistic models to support development of complex generic drug products: European Medicines Agency perspective. CPT: pharmacometrics & systems pharmacology. 2023-Jan-11. Link |
PharmCat ★ Russia, 2022-12-21 20:30 (722 d 11:13 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 23405 Views: 7,768 |
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Hi all! ❝ ’In the Random statement, ❝ Instead of Satterthwaite’s degrees of freedom Kenward-Roger could be used (what does ‘possibly’ mean here?) Well it finally happened. It took 20 years to find out that FA0(2), CSH and UN is the same for this model for 2 formulations (but `possibly` means that not entirely sured about this). May be `possibly` means that in is not true for 3 formulation? I don't understand what FA0(1) means for this model? No correlation? Same as diagonal cov structure? ❝ Alternative software could also be used if same results are generated as in PROC MIXED in SAS. It is very funny. Because if percept it exactly - there is no software that give you exactly same DDoF (Satterthwaite’s or freedom Kenward-Roger). All of them (SPSS, WinNonlin ets...) give you slightly different results for DDoF. |
Rayhope ☆ India, 2023-01-06 07:56 (706 d 23:47 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 23420 Views: 7,247 |
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Very enriching and expedient discussion on this new guidance. Thanks all guys putting your thoughts. I would like to know more about "Model based BE designs". if any one can provide Helpful articles (Really practical one with examples) on this topic will be great. |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2022-12-03 14:09 (740 d 17:33 ago) @ Relaxation Posting: # 23384 Views: 8,497 |
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Hi Relaxation & all, ❝ From a quick once over interesting topics included . Since I’m working on a paper on group-effects in BE (still collecting data; see this post) I had a closer look at Section III.D. The relevant parts: […] sponsors should minimize the group effect in a PK BE study as recommended below:
Bioequivalence should be determined based on the overall treatment effect in the whole study population. In general, the assessment of BE in the whole study population should be done without including the treatment and group interaction(s) term in the model, but applicants may also use other pre-specified models, as appropriate. The assessment of interaction between the treatment and group(s) is important, especially if any of the first four study design criteria recommended above are not met and the PK BE data are considered pivotal information for drug approval. If the interaction term of group and treatment is significant, heterogeneity of treatment effect across groups should be carefully examined and interpreted with care. If the observed treatment effect of the products varies greatly among the groups, vigorous attempts should be made to find an explanation for the heterogeneity in terms of other features of trial management or subject characteristics, which may suggest appropriate further analysis and interpretation. The terrible ‘model (I)’ $$\eqalign{Y&|\;\text{Group},\,\text{Sequence},\,\text{Treatment},\\ &\phantom{|}\;\text{Subject}(\text{Group}\times \text{Sequence}),\,\text{Period}(\text{Group}),\\ &\phantom{|}\;\text{Group}\times \text{Sequence},\,\text{Group}\times \text{Treatment}}\tag{I}$$ as a mandatory pre-test – which was not stated in any of the previous guidances but in deficiency letters – is gone with the wind. Very good, because it inflated the Type I Error and compromised power. Now the FDA recommends ‘model (II)’ $$\eqalign{Y&|\;\text{F},\,\;\text{Sequence},\,\text{Subject}(\text{F}\times \text{Sequence}),\\ &\phantom{|}\;\text{Period}(\text{F}),\;\text{F}\times \text{Sequence},\,\text{Treatment}\small{\textsf{,}}}\tag{II}$$ where \(\small{\text{F}}\) is the code for \(\small{\text{Group}}\) or \(\small{\text{Site}}\), respectively. Whilst important in a parallel design, I fail to understand why ‘similar demographics’ are of any importance in a crossover design. Equally sized groups are recommended but not necessary. If any of the first four conditions are not met, ‘model (I)’ should be used to assess the Group-by-Treatment interaction. If \(\small{p(G\times T)<0.1}\), ‘vigorous [sic] attempts’ should be made to find an explanation. It is an open question what to do if treatment effects vary between groups. Base the BE assessment on the largest one or on the one with smallest variability? See also the updated article and doi:10.1208/s12248-024-00921-x. — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
ElMaestro ★★★ Denmark, 2022-12-04 07:34 (740 d 00:08 ago) @ Relaxation Posting: # 23385 Views: 8,328 |
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Hi all, the new draft is interesting and I am still digesting it. I see that the SxF interaction is given some consideration here, but I am not sure what is meant now. One thing is the outlier aspect and that is ok (Line 387 etc). But it enters the scene again in Line 478 and that part is not so clear. As you read it, do they recommend estimation of SxF whenever the design allows? What do we do with the info? Muchas gracias. — Pass or fail! ElMaestro |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2022-12-10 11:37 (733 d 20:06 ago) @ ElMaestro Posting: # 23398 Views: 8,110 |
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Hi ElMaestro, ❝ I see that the SxF interaction is given some consideration here, but […] it enters the scene […] in Line 478 and that part is not so clear. As you read it, do they recommend estimation of SxF whenever the design allows? If we follow the recommended mixed-effects model (lines 1068–1096), yes. ❝ What do we do with the info? Attach the software’s output to the report. — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
Mahmoud ★ Jordan, 2022-12-10 15:08 (733 d 16:34 ago) @ Relaxation Posting: # 23399 Views: 8,097 |
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Dear All The FDA Generic Drugs Advisory Committee recommended in 1991 that the primary comparison of interest in a BE study is the ratio, rather than the difference, between average PK parameter data from the T and R formulations. Using logarithmic transformation, the general linear statistical model employed in the analysis of BE data allows inferences about the difference between the two means on the log scale, which can then be retransformed into inferences about the ratio of the two averages (geometric means) on the original scale. Logarithmic transformation thus achieves a general comparison based on the ratio rather than the differences. Under lognormal data for PK paramertes ratio of geometric means the same as ratio of medians However, situations with different within-subject variances of drugs may often occur in practice. BE tests cannot be easily transformed back from the log scale to the original scale under unequal within-subject variances. |
SMA ☆ Europe, 2023-02-06 10:07 (675 d 21:35 ago) @ Relaxation Posting: # 23439 Views: 6,574 |
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Good morning all FDA is organizing a webinar: A Deep Dive: FDA Draft Guidance on Statistical Approaches to Establishing Bioequivalence Agenda March 14, 2023 10:00 AM - 12:00 PM US ET TOPICS COVERED In Vitro Bioequivalence assessment Statistical Methods for Narrow Therapeutic Index and Highly Variable Drug Products Comparative Clinical Endpoint Bioequivalence Studies Studies in Multiple Groups Bioequivalence Statistics for Adhesion and Irritation Studies Dose Scale for Bioequivalence Assessment |
Achievwin ★★ US, 2023-02-07 08:13 (674 d 23:30 ago) @ SMA Posting: # 23441 Views: 6,431 |
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Wishful thinking: I hope they give clear direction (kill once for all) - the annoying center/group effect portion for BE studies conducted in one country and in homogenous population. As many times and on many platforms they mentioned it is irrelevant in BE/ANDA contecxt some academic curiosity folks keep brining this topic and keep the topic alive. ❝ FDA is organizing a webinar: A Deep Dive: FDA Draft Guidance on Statistical Approaches to Establishing Bioequivalence |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2023-02-07 12:30 (674 d 19:12 ago) @ Achievwin Posting: # 23443 Views: 6,448 |
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Hi Achievwin ❝ ❝ FDA is organizing a webinar: A Deep Dive: FDA Draft Guidance on Statistical Approaches to Establishing Bioequivalence ❝ Wishful thinking: I hope they give clear direction (kill once for all) - the annoying center/group effect portion for BE studies conducted in one country and in homogenous population. Get prepared. Wanjie is a tough discussant. ❝ As many times and on many platforms they mentioned it is irrelevant in BE/ANDA contecxt … The FDA? Where? ❝ … some academic curiosity folks keep brining this topic and keep the topic alive. On the the contrary. Not a single publication; only problems with some regulators. Expecting that groups could differ in their PK responses is beyond – not only my – intellectual reach. Can one reasonably assume that a study performed in the same CRO, same in-/exclusion criteria (→ similar demographics), quite often groups separated by only a couple of days, samples analyzed with the same bioanalytical method in the same lab, in a crossover each subject acting as its own reference, have an effect on the response variable‽ Of course, not. IMHO, assuming the opposite is an insult to the mind. »Λόγον ἔχεις;« »ἔχω.« »τί οὖν οὐ χρᾷ;« Remember the FDA’s slogan back in the day? In God we trust; Easy. See this post. — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
Achievwin ★★ US, 2023-02-25 17:18 (656 d 14:24 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 23475 Views: 6,011 |
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❝ The FDA? Where? Hope it churns more academic discussion and we MAY have some clarity before I retire..... |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2023-04-01 12:38 (621 d 20:04 ago) @ Achievwin Posting: # 23520 Views: 5,492 |
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Hi Achievwin & all, ❝ Wishful thinking: I hope they give clear direction (kill once for all) - the annoying center/group effect portion for BE studies conducted in one country and in homogenous population. ❝ ❝ FDA is organizing a webinar: A Deep Dive: FDA Draft Guidance on Statistical Approaches to Establishing Bioequivalence The presenters essentially read out what’s on their slides and didn’t provide any background information whatsoever. Since the slides were available for download before, I prepared comments/questions and tried to make them short and as concise as possible.
How is a Highly Variable Drug defined and is this information available on and within the RLD labeling? Oh dear, what a waste of time!— Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2023-02-07 14:02 (674 d 17:40 ago) @ SMA Posting: # 23444 Views: 6,564 |
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Hi SMA, a word of caution: EST (UTC –5) changes to EDT (UTC –4) on March 12 but the switch takes place in Europe two weeks later. If you are in Central Europe, the webinar starts at 15:00. \(\small{\begin{array}{ll} 13 presentations + discussion within two hours. Will have to have my pills ready. — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |