Sereng ☆ USA, 2022-05-12 19:40 (937 d 07:52 ago) Posting: # 22977 Views: 4,178 |
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Dear colleagues, if you have data from a completed BE study where the upper bound of the 90% CI of Cmax was outside the acceptance range, is it possible to calculate a new sample size that would likely meet the BE requirements (or declare futility)? In this case, the following are details of the completed BE study, where the reference drug Cmax had almost twice the CV of the Test drug. Parallel Group Design Two Groups (n=70/group) Cmax (Ref): 478 +/- 434 (mean +/- SD) Cmax (Test): 489 +/- 909 (mean +/- SD) Ratio (90% CI): 109.00 (87.00-135.00) Regards, — Biostatistically Challenged CEO |
ElMaestro ★★★ Denmark, 2022-05-13 00:29 (937 d 03:04 ago) @ Sereng Posting: # 22981 Views: 3,618 |
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Hi Sereng, ❝ Parallel Group Design ❝ Two Groups (n=70/group) ❝ Ratio (90% CI): 109.00 (87.00-135.00) I am getting around CV = 156% (pooled variance estimate). — Pass or fail! ElMaestro |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2022-05-13 01:10 (937 d 02:23 ago) @ ElMaestro Posting: # 22982 Views: 3,699 |
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Hi ElMaestro & Sereng, ❝ ❝ Parallel Group Design ❝ ❝ Two Groups (n=70/group) ❝ ❝ Ratio (90% CI): 109.00 (87.00-135.00) ❝ ❝ I am getting around CV = 156% (pooled variance estimate). Hhm…
❝ ❝ is it possible to calculate a new sample size that would likely meet the BE requirements … See above. ❝ ❝ … (or declare futility)? If this is not a blockbuster and/or you have a large budget, yes. Furthermore, there is no guarantee that you will observe exactly the same T/R-ratio and CV in another study. Especially the T/R-ratio is nasty. In PowerTOST a Bayesian method is implemented, which takes the uncertainties of the estimated T/R-ratio and CV of the provious study into account.
— Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
ElMaestro ★★★ Denmark, 2022-05-13 03:38 (936 d 23:55 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 22983 Views: 3,577 |
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Hi Hötzi, how embarassing. I forgot it was parallel. My bad. — Pass or fail! ElMaestro |
Sereng ☆ USA, 2022-05-18 07:32 (931 d 20:01 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 22997 Views: 3,220 |
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Hi Helmut, pardon my ignorance but I believe you are stating n=750 per group in this parallel group study (total n=1500) using the assumptions from the completed study? Correct? Thanks! — Biostatistically Challenged CEO |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2022-05-18 10:55 (931 d 16:38 ago) @ Sereng Posting: # 23000 Views: 3,264 |
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Hi Sereng, ❝ […] I believe you are stating n=750 per group in this parallel group study (total n=1500) using the assumptions from the completed study? Correct? Nope. Pasted from my previous post:
PowerTOST give always the total sample. If you are interested in the background, see this article.— Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
dshah ★★ India, 2022-05-13 13:54 (936 d 13:39 ago) @ ElMaestro Posting: # 22985 Views: 3,583 |
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Hi All! Even I am getting around CV = 156% (pooled variance estimate) considering N=140 (N=70/group). Only when N=70 is considered, I am getting CV~92%. Dear Sereng! From the details of Cmax (Ref): 478 +/- 434 (mean +/- SD) and Cmax (Test): 489 +/- 909 (mean +/- SD), it can be seen that reference Cmax is less variable than test one which is opposite to what is stated in original post. Or is it typo? Regards, Divyen |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2022-05-16 17:01 (933 d 10:32 ago) @ dshah Posting: # 22990 Views: 3,482 |
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Hi Divyen! ❝ Even I am getting around CV = 156% (pooled variance estimate) considering N=140 (N=70/group). ❝ Only when N=70 is considered, I am getting CV~92%. How did you calculate it? The lower and upper limits \(\small{\{L,U\}}\) of a \(\small{1-2\,\alpha}\) confidence interval for given sample sizes \(\small{n_1,\,n_2}\)1 are calculated by $$\{L,U\}=\exp\left(\log_e(PE)\mp t_{1-\alpha,n_1+n_2-2}\cdot \sqrt{MSE\cdot(1/n_1+1/n_2)} \right)\textsf{.}\tag{1}$$ Hence, for given \(\small{1-2\,\alpha}\), \(\small{\{L,U\}}\), and \(\small{n_1,\,n_2}\) we can derive the \(\small{MSE}\) and subsequently calculate the \(\small{CV}\):
CI2CV() of PowerTOST .With Sereng’s numbers:$$\{L,U\}=\{0.87,1.35\},\,n_1=n_2=70,\,N=n_1+n_2=140\\\nu=N-2=138,\,\alpha=0.05,\,t_{1-\alpha,\nu}=1.65597$$ $$PE\approx\sqrt{0.87\times1.35}\approx1.08374\tag{←2}$$ $$\Delta_\text{CL}\approx\log_e1.35-\log_e1.08374\approx\log_e1.08374-\log_e0.87\approx0.21968\tag{←3}$$ $$MSE\approx\frac{\left(0.21968/1.65597\right)^2}{1/70+1/70}\approx\frac{140\times\left(0.21968/1.65597\right)^2}{4}\approx0.61595\tag{←6}$$ $$CV\approx\sqrt{\exp(0.61595)-1}\approx\color{DarkGreen}{0.92272}\tag{←7}$$ Check whether the recalculated \(\small{MSE}\) is correct: $$\{L,U\}\approx100\exp\left(\log_e 1.08374\mp 1.65597\times \sqrt{0.61595\times(1/70+1/70)}\right)\sim\color{DarkGreen}{\{87,135\}}\;\tiny{\blacksquare}\tag{←1}$$ If results don’t match:
Consequently, the \(\small{MSE}\) doubles and the \(\small{CV}\) is much larger than the correct \(\small{\approx92\%}\): $$\eqalign{MSE&\approx\frac{140\times\left(0.21968/1.65597\right)^2}{\color{Red}{2}}\approx1.23193\\ CV&\approx100\sqrt{\exp(1.23193)-1}\approx\color{Red}{156\%} }$$ Try:
design argument to be used in the functions CI2CV() and CI.BE() , the second are the degrees of freedom (where n is the total sample size), and bk is the ‘design constant’ or the denominator used in \(\small{(6)}\).You will see that with your \(\small{CV}\) the backcalculated confidence interval does not match the original \(\small{\left\{87,135\right\}}\):
In PowerTOST without rounding:
If you don’t trust in the functions of PowerTOST , use the formulas from above in Base :
— Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
d_labes ★★★ Berlin, Germany, 2022-05-16 20:58 (933 d 06:34 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 22993 Views: 3,500 |
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Algebra rules. — Regards, Detlew |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2022-05-17 16:17 (932 d 11:16 ago) @ Sereng Posting: # 22994 Views: 3,396 |
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Hi Sereng, ❝ […] the reference drug Cmax had almost twice the CV of the Test drug. ❝ Parallel Group Design ❝ Two Groups (n=70/group) ❝ Ratio (90% CI): 109.00 (87.00-135.00) Since in this post (based on the t-test assuming equal variances) I could reproduce your results: According to the FDA’s guidance (Section IV.B.1.d.): For parallel designs, the confidence interval for the difference of means in the log scale can be computed using the total between-subject variance.1 […] equal variances should not be assumed. Though you had equally sized groups, variances were not equal. This calls for the Welch-test with Satterthwaite’s approximation2 of the degrees of freedom:3,4 $$\eqalign{\nu&\approx\frac{\left(\frac{s_1^2}{n_1}+\frac{s_2^2}{n_2}\right)^2}{\frac{s_1^4}{n_1^2\,(n_1-1)} + \frac{s_2^4}{n_2^2\,(n_2-1)}}\\ &\approx\frac{\left(\frac{s_1^2}{n_1}+\frac{s_2^2}{n_2}\right)^2}{\frac{1}{n_1-1}\left(\frac{s_1^2}{n_1}\right)^2 + \frac{1}{n_2-1}\left(\frac{s_2^2}{n_2}\right)^2}} $$ For good reasons in , SAS , and other software packages it is the default.
SPSS both the conventional t-test and the Welch-test are performed. Always use the second row of the table of results.@Divyen: If the confidence interval based on my derivation does not match the reported one, it is evident that the Welch-test was used. In such a case calculating the \(\small{MSE}\) is not that trivial. Maybe I will try it later.
— Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |