dshah ★★ India, 2020-10-16 08:20 (1425 d 01:39 ago) Posting: # 22011 Views: 4,664 |
|
Dear All! Hope you all are doing fine. I would like to know about any available excel tool for sample size calculation for NTI by FDA method. I am asking this as many times- tools like R, Gpower etc. requires installation of software which is not permissible by many firms/organization. Regards, Dshah |
d_labes ★★★ Berlin, Germany, 2020-10-16 13:09 (1424 d 20:50 ago) @ dshah Posting: # 22013 Views: 4,191 |
|
Dear dshah! ❝ I would like to know about any available excel tool for sample size calculation for NTI by FDA method. Sorry but to my knowledge there is no excel tool for sample size calculation for NTI by FDA method. And I'm quite sure that such a tool is never available. The FDA method for NTID's is a framework. You have to rely on simulations to do power calculations / sample size estimation. It is hard to imagine that this may be done within excel . ❝ I am asking this as many times- tools like R, Gpower etc. requires installation of software which is not permissible by many firms/organization. Shit happens . Try to convince your boss / IT department that you absolutely need R and the package PowerTOST to do your job. At least if it comes to sample size estimation. — Regards, Detlew |
dshah ★★ India, 2020-10-16 14:11 (1424 d 19:49 ago) @ d_labes Posting: # 22015 Views: 4,078 |
|
Dear d_labes! Thank you for your suggestion and I will try to convenience my IT. Regards, Dshah |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2020-10-16 13:11 (1424 d 20:48 ago) @ dshah Posting: # 22014 Views: 4,140 |
|
Hi dshah, ❝ I would like to know about any available excel tool for sample size calculation for NTI by FDA method. ❝ I am asking this as many times- tools like R, Gpower etc. requires installation of software which is not permissible by many firms/organization. Sorry, you have to convince your paranoic IT department. The package PowerTOST is used in many companies and by regulatory agencies as well. The FDA’s Donald Schuirmann performed his simulations in S-Plus, (‼), and APL.*Background: For all reference-scaled approaches (the EMA’s ABEL, the FDA’s RSABE and NTID) you have to simulate studies. To get a stable result 100,000 are required. Even if you manage it to simulate subjects in Excel (a nutjob’s work but in principle doable), you will hit even in the current version of Excel the maximum number of rows (220 = 1,048,576). In other words, you can’t simulate more than 10 subjects…
— Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
dshah ★★ India, 2020-10-16 14:12 (1424 d 19:48 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 22016 Views: 4,096 |
|
Dear Helmut! Thank you so much for your suggestion. I will try to convenience my IT for R package. Regards, Dshah |
martin ★★ Austria, 2020-10-16 14:52 (1424 d 19:07 ago) @ dshah Posting: # 22017 Views: 4,089 |
|
dear dshah, you find this presentation helpful for discussion with your IT Friends Don’t Let Friends Use Excel for Statistics where I like the picture on slide 4 very much hope this helps martin |
dshah ★★ India, 2020-10-20 08:59 (1421 d 01:00 ago) @ martin Posting: # 22034 Views: 3,757 |
|
Dear Martin! ❝ you find this presentation helpful for discussion with your IT Friends Don’t Let Friends Use Excel for Statistics where I like the picture on slide 4 very much Thank you and even I like Slide 4 Regards, Dshah |
yjlee168 ★★★ Kaohsiung, Taiwan, 2020-10-17 10:09 (1423 d 23:50 ago) (edited by yjlee168 on 2020-10-17 14:12) @ Helmut Posting: # 22019 Views: 4,033 |
|
Hi Helmut, ❝ ... ❝ Sorry, you have to convince your paranoic IT department. Agree definitely. ❝ ... ❝ Background: For all reference-scaled approaches (the EMA’s ABEL, the FDA’s RSABE and NTID) you have to simulate studies. To get a stable result 100,000 are required. Even if you manage it to simulate subjects in Excel (a nutjob’s work but in principle doable), you will hit even in the current version of Excel the maximum number of rows (220 = 1,048,576). In other words, you can’t simulate more than 10 subjects… Not quite (my turn ). IMHO, simulation with MS-Excel does not require so many cells or number of rows. In MS-Excel or MS-Word, there is a macro language called VBA (Visual BASIC for Application) that is similar to any programming language. So you just save the final results when doing simulations. Therefore, I don't think you need so many cells to save each simulation, if I understand what you said correctly. Ps. Here is a very nice slide file about MS-Excel simulations. — All the best, -- Yung-jin Lee bear v2.9.1:- created by Hsin-ya Lee & Yung-jin Lee Kaohsiung, Taiwan https://www.pkpd168.com/bear Download link (updated) -> here |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2020-10-17 13:30 (1423 d 20:29 ago) @ yjlee168 Posting: # 22020 Views: 4,106 |
|
Hi Yung-jin, ❝ […] In MS-Excel or MS-Word, there is a macro language called VBA (Visual Basic for Applications) that is similar to any programming language. I know, used it ages ago myself though never for statistics. ❝ So you just save the final results when doing simulations. Therefore, I don't think you need so many cells save each simulation, if I understand what you said correctly. Right. ❝ Ps. Here is a very nice slide file about MS-Excel simulations. You need Excel 2010 or later which uses the Mersenne Twister. In earlier versions the period of the pseudorandom number generator was just 216 – 1 = 65,535. However, I guess that simulations in VBA will be extremely slooow. In on my six years old machine (CVwR = CVwT, T/R-ratio 0.975, ≥80% power, 4-period full replicate design, 100,000 simulations):
Beat It. For paranoiacs: Ever heard of macro viruses? I know of one company not allowing FARTSSIE… BTW, in v2.5 of last Tuesday Dave removed all reference-scaled methods and gives the code of PowerTOST in a box. Edit 01 Jan 2022: Background and examples. — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
yjlee168 ★★★ Kaohsiung, Taiwan, 2020-10-19 04:16 (1422 d 05:43 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 22023 Views: 3,888 |
|
Dear Helmut, ❝ However, I guess that simulations in VBA will be extremely slooow. Perhaps. Maybe Dave can tell us more later. Well, it can be slow, but should not be that slooow. ❝ ... ❝ Sample size: 18 ❝ Runtime (seconds): ❝ user system elapsed ❝ 0.14 0.01 0.15 I run the codes three times under R v4.0.3 and got:
Sample size: 18 a little bit faster. I guess that you have not upgraded to R 4.0.3 yet. R v4.0.3 is simply faster (still my gut feeling ). I remember that your Xeon computer runs faster than my Windows, even than my Linux notebook last time. Is it the same computer? ❝ For paranoiacs: Ever heard of macro viruses? like Melissa? Yes, it's quite possible and should be very careful. But you know we cannot blame VBA. Bad guy is everywhere. ❝ I know of one company not allowing FARTSSIE…... True. However, some time there is no need to talk to IT department to install R or anything else. Quite ironically. ❝ BTW, in v2.5 of last Tuesday Dave removed all reference-scaled methods and gives the code of Thanks for the information. — All the best, -- Yung-jin Lee bear v2.9.1:- created by Hsin-ya Lee & Yung-jin Lee Kaohsiung, Taiwan https://www.pkpd168.com/bear Download link (updated) -> here |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2020-10-19 14:12 (1421 d 19:47 ago) @ yjlee168 Posting: # 22027 Views: 4,065 |
|
Hi Yung-jin, ❝ ❝ Sample size: 18 ❝ ❝ Runtime (seconds): ❝ ❝ user system elapsed ❝ ❝ 0.14 0.01 0.15 ❝ ❝ I run the codes three times under R v4.0.3 and got: ❝ ❝ ❝ ❝ ❝ ❝ ❝ ❝ a little bit faster. I guess that you have not upgraded to R 4.0.3 yet. Nope, was on 4.0.3 as well. ❝ R v4.0.3 is simply faster (still my gut feeling ). Cannot check. Deleted 4.0.2 already and not in the mood to reinstall it. ❝ I remember that your Xeon computer runs faster than my Windows, even than my Linux notebook last time. Is it the same computer? It is. However, median of 15 runs 0.16 seconds. No idea. ❝ ❝ BTW, in v2.5 of last Tuesday Dave removed all reference-scaled methods and gives the code of ❝ ❝ Thanks for the information. Welcome. Not for an initiate like you but for FARTSSIE-adepts… With the script below you can reproduce the results of FARTSSIE ≤2.4; for the EMA’s ABEL you have to change cell U16 from 5 (which is for Health Canada’s TPD) to 3 .
Flaws:
bear ?— Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |