Mauricio Sampaio ★ Brazil, 2020-02-11 21:52 (1764 d 16:09 ago) (edited on 2020-02-12 17:16) Posting: # 21160 Views: 10,052 |
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Dear, ANVISA has made available a new draft on bioequivalence studies and a chapter on two stage design. Below are the points. Please, you could make contributions so that we can be in line with the other guidelines. Art.75. For two-stage studies, the following should be noted:
In my opinion it could be better. So, I would like to hear your opinion. Thank you in advance! |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2020-02-12 03:26 (1764 d 10:34 ago) @ Mauricio Sampaio Posting: # 21161 Views: 8,940 |
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Hi Mauricio, ❝ IV. This second group must have, at least, 50% of the previous group; ❝ ❝ V. Type I error must be preserved and adjusted, and in order to demonstrate bioequivalence the level of confidence is 94.12%; The red parts are crap. See my remarks there. — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
Mauricio Sampaio ★ Brazil, 2020-02-12 18:33 (1763 d 19:28 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 21168 Views: 8,817 |
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Hi Helmut, Thank you for presentation. Ahhh I have a question... Are you in Campinas?? Brazil??? ❝ NESE, Campinas, 11 – 13 February, 2020 |
ElMaestro ★★★ Denmark, 2020-02-12 09:27 (1764 d 04:34 ago) @ Mauricio Sampaio Posting: # 21162 Views: 8,825 |
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Hi MS, ❝ Art.75. For two-stage studies, the following should be noted: It is acceptable to use a two-stage approach to demonstrate bioequivalence based on ignorance of the intra-individual variability of the drug; Ermmm...... WHAT???? — Pass or fail! ElMaestro |
nobody nothing 2020-02-12 09:49 (1764 d 04:12 ago) @ ElMaestro Posting: # 21163 Views: 8,934 |
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❝ ❝ Art.75. For two-stage studies, the following should be noted: It is acceptable to use a two-stage approach to demonstrate bioequivalence based on ignorance of the intra-individual variability of the drug; ❝ ❝ ❝ Ermmm...... WHAT???? Same reaction here last night, but I thought I'm hallucinating due to ovewr-day fasting. — Kindest regards, nobody |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2020-02-12 14:12 (1763 d 23:48 ago) @ ElMaestro Posting: # 21164 Views: 8,845 |
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Hi ElMaestro, ❝ ❝ ignorance of the intra-individual variability of the drug; ❝ ❝ ❝ Ermmm...... WHAT???? Lost in translation? É aceitável usar uma abordagem de dois estágios para demonstrar a bioequivalência baseada nodesconhecimento da variabilidade do fármaco; I have the same translation like Mauricio. Google-translate suggests ‘unknowing’ for ‘nodesconhecimento’ but if you feed the entire sentence, ‘ignorance’ shows up. — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
Mauricio Sampaio ★ Brazil, 2020-02-12 18:04 (1763 d 19:57 ago) @ ElMaestro Posting: # 21166 Views: 8,859 |
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Hi nobody ❝ "Ermmm...... WHAT???? ' Sorry! Change to: unknowlegement of intra-individual variability |
Mauricio Sampaio ★ Brazil, 2020-02-12 18:11 (1763 d 19:50 ago) @ ElMaestro Posting: # 21167 Views: 8,762 |
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Hi El Maestro ❝ Ermmm...... WHAT???? Sorry! Change to: unknowledgement of intra-individual variability. Now, any comments or contribution? |
ElMaestro ★★★ Denmark, 2020-02-12 22:54 (1763 d 15:07 ago) @ Mauricio Sampaio Posting: # 21169 Views: 8,832 |
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Hi MS, ❝ Art.75. For two-stage studies, the following should be noted: ❝ ❝ ❝ ❝ ❝ ❝ ❝ In my opinion it could be better. So, I would like to hear your opinion. It sounds like a derivative of Potvin's method B with both alphas 0.0294 (1-2*0.0294=0.9412=94.12%), but the performance isn't one that is published. It is not at all demanding to do this type of study assuming you can generally handle two-stage approaches, but I am a little uncertain when you mention that the influence of stage should be verified, I don't quite know what this means. Do they talk about anova and assessment of the stage effect through a p-level, comparison of results with and with a stage term or what? Mauricio, do you think there could be alternative translations of the sentence in question? Hötzi, do you want to publish the performance of this approach in AAPSJ or JPPS with me if I do the simulations and draft the ms? — Pass or fail! ElMaestro |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2020-02-15 18:53 (1760 d 19:07 ago) @ ElMaestro Posting: # 21171 Views: 8,714 |
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Hi ElMaestro, ❝ It sounds like a derivative of Potvin's method B with both alphas 0.0294 (1-2*0.0294=0.9412=94.12%), but the performance isn't one that is published. It is not at all demanding to do this type of study assuming you can generally handle two-stage approaches, but I am a little uncertain when you mention that the influence of stage should be verified, I don't quite know what this means. Do they talk about anova and assessment of the stage effect through a p-level, comparison of results with and with a stage term or what? ❝ Mauricio, do you think there could be alternative translations of the sentence in question? In the meantime I know what happened. Naturally the original is in Portuguese. In my experience people at the ANVISA sometimes misunderstand English papers/regulations. Company X provided the original to a professional translator who produced what Mauricio posted. It channeled to company Y (I have it in all its doubtful beauty). Hardly better than what Google-translate produces. ❝ Hötzi, do you want to publish the performance of this approach in AAPSJ or JPPS with me if I do the simulations and draft the ms? I don’t see the purpose. We discussed already more than three years ago that a minimum stage 2 might inflate the Type I Error. Not rocket-science. Here an example at the location of the maximum inflation of Potvin’s Method B (n1 12, CV 24%):
We all know that Potvin’s adjusted α for Method B was a lucky punch. It has nothing to do with Pocock’s 0.0294 (which is for a group-sequential design with fixed total sample size N, superiority, parallel groups, known variance, and one interim at exactly N/2). Kieser & Rauch lamented about that and stated that the correct Pocock’s α for equivalence is 0.0304. Sorry guys, only for GSDs. If we force a minimum n2, the TIE will always increase. Contrary to the EMA (stating ‘For example, using 94.12% confidence intervals…’) seemingly ANVISA mandates 0.0294, which is crap. By chance, the TIE is still maintained but this is not necessarily the case for other methods. If I’m in the right mood I’ll write letter to ANVISA. — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
Mauricio Sampaio ★ Brazil, 2020-02-16 06:01 (1760 d 07:59 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 21172 Views: 8,563 |
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❝ If I’m in the right mood I’ll write letter to ANVISA. PLEASE!!!!! Or make your official contribution on the website: http://formsus.datasus.gov.br/site/formulario.php?id_aplicacao=52824 |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2020-02-16 16:43 (1759 d 21:17 ago) @ Mauricio Sampaio Posting: # 21173 Views: 8,573 |
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Hi Mauricio, ❝ ❝ If I’m in the right mood I’ll write letter to ANVISA. ❝ ❝ PLEASE!!!!! ❝ ❝ Or make your official contribution on the website: ❝ http://formsus.datasus.gov.br/site/formulario.php?id_aplicacao=52824 No promises… I played around around with published (and unpublished) methods. I used the noncentral t-distribution, whereas in the papers the shifted central t-distribution was used for speed reasons. One degree less in the sample size estimation because the stage-term is used in the pooled analysis. 100,000 simulations for the average total sample size E[N] and 1 mio for the empiric Type I Error. Narrow grid for CV (10–80%, step 2%), and n1 (12–72, step 2). The power/TIE surfaces are highly nonlinear; generally the maximum inflation is observed at a combination of low CV and small n1. The TIE is given for these locations (in the papers a wider grid with step sizes of 10% and 12 was used). In the original methods no minimum stage 2 size; for the ANVISA I forced it to ≥ 50% n1. SLF refers to a manuscript by the usual Simul-Ants (Schütz, Labes, Fuglsang) we didn’t finish (rests in peace in my “dead dogs”-folder)… $$\small{\begin{matrix} \textsf{Name} & \textsf{Method} & \textsf{Type} & GMR & \pi & \alpha & CV & n_1 & E[N] & \text{TIE} & n_{2,min} & E[N] & \textsf{ANVISA} & \textsf{comp}\\\hline \textsf{SLF} & \textsf{B} & 1 & 0.90 & 0.8 & 0.0272 & 0.20 & 12 & 40.8 & 0.04997 & 6 & 40.8 & 0.04999 & \textsf{higher}\\ \textsf{SLF} & \textsf{B} & 1 & 0.90 & 0.9 & 0.0268 & 0.22 & 16 & 60.3 & 0.04985 & 8 & 60.3 & 0.04977 & \textsf{lower}\\ \textsf{Potvin} & \textsf{B} & 1 & 0.95 & 0.8 & 0.0294 & 0.24 & 12 & 29.8 & 0.04876 & 6 & 29.9 & 0.04879 & \textsf{higher}\\ \textsf{Potvin-SLF} & \textsf{B} & 1 & 0.95 & 0.8 & 0.0302 & 0.24 & 12 & 29.5 & 0.04999 & 6 & 29.6 & 0.05020 & \textsf{higher}\\ \textsf{Fuglsang} & \textsf{B} & 1 & 0.95 & 0.9 & 0.0284 & 0.22 & 12 & 31.7 & 0.04960 & 6 & 31.7 & 0.04958 & \textsf{lower}\\ \textsf{Fuglsang-SLF} & \textsf{B} & 1 & 0.95 & 0.9 & 0.0286 & 0.22 & 12 & 31.6 & 0.04999 & 6 & 31.6 & 0.05032 & \textsf{higher}\\ \textsf{Montague} & \textsf{D} & 2 & 0.90 & 0.8 & 0.0280 & 0.20 & 12 & 40.3 & \color{Red}{0.05180} & 6 & 40.3 & \color{Red}{0.05181} & \textsf{higher}\\ \textsf{Montague-SLF} & \textsf{D} & 2 & 0.90 & 0.8 & 0.0268 & 0.18 & 12 & 32.7 & 0.04998 & 6 & 32.7 & 0.04980 & \textsf{lower}\\ \textsf{Fuglsang} & \textsf{C/D} & 2 & 0.90 & 0.9 & 0.0269 & 0.18 & 12 & 41.8 & 0.05021 & 6 & 41.8 & 0.05011 & \textsf{lower}\\ \textsf{Fuglsang-SLF} & \textsf{C/D} & 2 & 0.90 & 0.9 & 0.0266 & 0.18 & 12 & 42.0 & 0.04995 & 6 & 42.0 & 0.04967 & \textsf{lower}\\ \textsf{Potvin} & \textsf{C} & 2 & 0.95 & 0.8 & 0.0294 & 0.22 & 12 & 24.9 & \color{Red}{0.05143} & 6 & 24.9 & \color{Red}{0.05136} & \textsf{lower}\\ \textsf{Potvin-SLF} & \textsf{C} & 2 & 0.95 & 0.8 & 0.0282 & 0.10 & 16 & 16.0 & 0.05010 & 8 & 16.0 & 0.05010 & \textsf{equal}\\ \textsf{Fuglsang} & \textsf{C/D} & 2 & 0.95 & 0.9 & 0.0274 & 0.10 & 16 & 16.0 & 0.05010 & 8 & 16.0 & 0.05010 & \textsf{equal}\\ \textsf{Fuglsang-SLF} & \textsf{C/D} & 2 & 0.95 & 0.9 & 0.0275 & 0.20 & 12 & 25.8 & 0.04962 & 6 & 25.8 & 0.04985 & \textsf{higher} \end{matrix}}$$ TIE which is significantly >0.05 in red (limit of the binomial test 0.05036). I don’t understand why in some scenarios the TIE is lower with a minimum n2. Counterintuitive. R-code: library(Power2Stage) — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
d_labes ★★★ Berlin, Germany, 2020-02-16 20:34 (1759 d 17:27 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 21175 Views: 8,490 |
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Dear Helmut, ❝ ... \textsf{Name} & \textsf{Method} & \textsf{Type} & GMR & \pi & \alpha & CV & n_1 & E[N] & \text{TIE} & n_{2,min} & E[N] & \textsf{ANVISA} & \textsf{comp}\\\hline \textsf{SLF} & \textsf{B} & 1 & 0.90 & 0.8 & 0.0272 & 0.20 & 12 & 40.8 & 0.04997 & 6 & 40.8 & 0.04999 & \textsf{higher}\\ \textsf{SLF} & \textsf{B} & 1 & 0.90 & 0.9 & 0.0268 & 0.22 & 16 & 60.3 & 0.04985 & 8 & 60.3 & 0.04977 & \textsf{lower}\\ \textsf{Potvin} & \textsf{B} & 1 & 0.95 & 0.8 & 0.0294 & 0.24 & 12 & 29.8 & 0.04876 & 6 & 29.9 & 0.04879 & \textsf{higher}\\ \textsf{Potvin-SLF} & \textsf{B} & 1 & 0.95 & 0.8 & 0.0302 & 0.24 & 12 & 29.5 & 0.04999 & 6 & 29.6 & 0.05020 & \textsf{higher}\\ \textsf{Fuglsang} & \textsf{B} & 1 & 0.95 & 0.9 & 0.0284 & 0.22 & 12 & 31.7 & 0.04960 & 6 & 31.7 & 0.04958 & \textsf{lower}\\ \textsf{Fuglsang-SLF} & \textsf{B} & 1 & 0.95 & 0.9 & 0.0286 & 0.22 & 12 & 31.6 & 0.04999 & 6 & 31.6 & 0.05032 & \textsf{higher}\\ \textsf{Montague} & \textsf{D} & 2 & 0.90 & 0.8 & 0.0280 & 0.20 & 12 & 40.3 & \color{Red}{0.05180} & 6 & 40.3 & \color{Red}{0.05181} & \textsf{higher}\\ \textsf{Montague-SLF} & \textsf{D} & 2 & 0.90 & 0.8 & 0.0268 & 0.18 & 12 & 32.7 & 0.04998 & 6 & 32.7 & 0.04980 & \textsf{lower}\\ \textsf{Fuglsang} & \textsf{C/D} & 2 & 0.90 & 0.9 & 0.0269 & 0.18 & 12 & 41.8 & 0.05021 & 6 & 41.8 & 0.05011 & \textsf{lower}\\ \textsf{Fuglsang-SLF} & \textsf{C/D} & 2 & 0.90 & 0.9 & 0.0266 & 0.18 & 12 & 42.0 & 0.04995 & 6 & 42.0 & 0.04967 & \textsf{lower}\\ \textsf{Potvin} & \textsf{C} & 2 & 0.95 & 0.8 & 0.0294 & 0.22 & 12 & 24.9 & \color{Red}{0.05143} & 6 & 24.9 & \color{Red}{0.05136} & \textsf{lower}\\ \textsf{Potvin-SLF} & \textsf{C} & 2 & 0.95 & 0.8 & 0.0282 & 0.10 & 16 & 16.0 & 0.05010 & 8 & 16.0 & 0.05010 & \textsf{equal}\\ \textsf{Fuglsang} & \textsf{C/D} & 2 & 0.95 & 0.9 & 0.0274 & 0.10 & 16 & 16.0 & 0.05010 & 8 & 16.0 & 0.05010 & \textsf{equal}\\ \textsf{Fuglsang-SLF} & \textsf{C/D} & 2 & 0.95 & 0.9 & 0.0275 & 0.20 & 12 & 25.8 & 0.04962 & 6 & 25.8 & 0.04985 & \textsf{higher} \end{matrix}}$$ ❝ TIE which is significantly >0.05 in red (limit of the binomial test 0.05036). I don’t understand why in some scenarios the TIE is lower with a minimum n2. ❝ Counterintuitive. I'm quite sure: This is because of the simulation error. The differences of the TIE without and with min.n2 are so small. See the last column above. Any try with a different seed of the random number generator may and will change the comparison. — Regards, Detlew |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2020-02-17 13:49 (1759 d 00:11 ago) @ d_labes Posting: # 21176 Views: 8,617 |
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Dear Detlew! ❝ I'm quite sure: This is because of the simulation error. The differences of the TIE without and with min.n2 are so small. ❝ Any try with a different seed of the random number generator may and will change the comparison. As usual you are right. The standard error of a single estimate from 1 mio simulations is \(\small{\sqrt{0.5\alpha/10^6}\approx 0.00016}\). With random seeds results spread but the trend is obvious:
25 replicates; blue dots fixed seeds, light blue dots random seeds. Model fits, 95% and 99% prediction intervals. Walking in the footsteps of zizou and trying an argument:
Consequences for the Consulta Pública N° 760:
— Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
Mauricio Sampaio ★ Brazil, 2020-02-17 14:50 (1758 d 23:10 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 21177 Views: 8,373 |
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❝ Consequences for the Consulta Pública N° 760. Instead of: "Type I error must be preserved and adjusted, and to demonstrate bioequivalence the level of confidence is 94.12%;" I will only propose that: It must be demonstrated that the type I error of the study is controlled. Instead of: "This second group must have at least 50% of the previous group" I will propose that: The number of participants in the second stage must be calculated based on the data extracted from the first stage. The calculation must be justified considering possible losses and / or dropouts observed in the first stage. In this way, the dialogue is open and not restricted. = "on top of the wall" Edit: Subject line changed; see also this post #2. [Helmut] |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2020-02-17 15:16 (1758 d 22:44 ago) @ Mauricio Sampaio Posting: # 21178 Views: 8,392 |
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Hi Mauricio, ❝ Instead of: "Type I error must be preserved and adjusted, and to demonstrate bioequivalence the level of confidence is 94.12%;" ❝ ❝ I will only propose that: It must be demonstrated that the type I error of the study is controlled. OK in principle. It’s always a good idea not only to propose a change but give a justification. Maybe refer to the EMA’s and the WHO’s guidelines stating that the adjusted α has to be specified in the protocol and the choice is at the company’s discretion. α 0.0294 (i.e., the 94.12% CI) is definitely not the only possible one. ❝ Instead of: "This second group must have at least 50% of the previous group" ❝ ❝ I will propose that: The number of participants in the second stage must be calculated based on the data extracted from the first stage. The calculation must be justified considering possible losses and / or dropouts observed in the first stage. OK. Do me a favor: Use estimated/estimation instead of calculated/calculation. Of course, n2 is always based on the eligible subjects in the interim (n1), not on the subjects randomized. Justification: A minimum stage 2 sample size is not covered by the published methods; any minimum n2 might inflate the Type I Error. If that sounds too statistical write “the patient’s risk” instead. — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |