Helmut ★★★ ![]() ![]() Vienna, Austria, 2017-04-03 18:55 (2910 d 01:32 ago) Posting: # 17218 Views: 6,391 |
|
Dear all, I stumbled across this old post. History (about exclusion of low profiles of gastric-resistant formulations):
Try this one (64 subjects, 5% outliers after R and exactly one more after T):
Splendid. A p-value of 0.5. Try to increase the sample size and/or lower the percentage of outliers. I love n <- 120 and pct <- 0.2 . Zero outliers after R and one after T in a study with 120 subjects. Is this pure chance? Guess. Are we allowed to exclude the single outlier? According to the EMA’s eternal wisdom: No.Before the final MR-GL I would have thought that „comparable frequency” calls for a two-sided test.
I can’t follow the argument that the reference has a documented efficacy/safety record whereas the test has not. Essentially T and R should be dealt with equally. The BE-GL: The data from all treated subjects should be treated equally. The FDA states somewhere nicely (can’t find it – changed the structure of the website again) that bioequivalence is bijective, i.e., the test of T vs. R gives exactly the same result as the test of R vs. T. If we follow the EMA’s logic above, this is no more the case.OK, we lost our virginity already to reference-scaling. Only if CVwT = CVwR we would arrive at the same conclusion. I know, I know, the reference is safe and efficacious, ![]() — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! ![]() Helmut Schütz ![]() The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
nobody nothing 2017-04-03 19:38 (2910 d 00:49 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 17219 Views: 5,525 |
|
❝ Sometimes a patient starts with a generic (prescribed by a general practitioner) and when hospitalized is switched to the originator. Common practice. Really? Which hospital, country? This rule (don't care too much for a total loser in the REF group) was invented to make life easier to generics (don't f*ck up your BE-study because REF had a kind of hick-up). Would not use this against authorities. MY opinion... ![]() — Kindest regards, nobody |
Helmut ★★★ ![]() ![]() Vienna, Austria, 2017-04-03 19:55 (2910 d 00:32 ago) @ nobody Posting: # 17220 Views: 5,517 |
|
Hi nobody, ❝ ❝ Sometimes a patient starts with a generic (prescribed by a general practitioner) and when hospitalized is switched to the originator. Common practice. ❝ ❝ Really? Which hospital, country? Yes. Regularly in Austrian university hospitals. Maybe cause these super-bright professors (aka “key opinion leaders”) are invited with their spouses to “conferences” in Monte-Carlo or the Bahamas? Or do originators give more huge discounts than the Generikahütten? Quite often I discover that physicians only know the brand-name (and not the API). The equation is diclofenac = Voltaren. ❝ This rule (don't care too much for a total loser in the REF group) was invented to make life easier to generics (don't f*ck up your BE-study because REF had a kind of hick-up). Would not use this against authorities. MY opinion... Well, I don’t like the double (moral?) standards behind. All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others. — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! ![]() Helmut Schütz ![]() The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
nobody nothing 2017-04-03 20:15 (2910 d 00:12 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 17221 Views: 5,517 |
|
❝ Well, I don’t like the double (moral?) standards behind. ❝ All animals are equal, ❝ but some animals are more equal than others. I think I have a track record of seeing lousy standards/moral, but in this case: Problem -> Solution. Life is to short to start searching for problems ![]() btw I know countries (formerly known as so-called "first world") where you are nowadays supposed to bring in your chronic medication for a stay for (elective) treatment. Hint: BE is not the reason... ![]() — Kindest regards, nobody |
Helmut ★★★ ![]() ![]() Vienna, Austria, 2017-04-03 20:28 (2909 d 23:59 ago) @ nobody Posting: # 17222 Views: 5,546 |
|
Hi nobody, ❝ btw I know countries (formerly known as so-called "first world") where you are nowadays supposed to bring in your chronic medication for a stay for (elective) treatment. Hint: BE is not the reason... Great. This will safe the economy. IIRC, one of the “aides” of the guy with the great haircut said in an interview that in the future it will be sufficient for the FDA to get evidence that new drugs are safe. Proof of efficacy will no more be required since the “free market” will kick the bad drugs out anyway. Amazing. Renaissance of sham surgery, snake oil, Doktor Mayers Muschelmehl, and a boost for homeopathy? ![]() — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! ![]() Helmut Schütz ![]() The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
nobody nothing 2017-04-03 20:50 (2909 d 23:38 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 17223 Views: 5,498 |
|
...what gives me green dots in the face is the mayor scientific f*ckup called "real-life data" wrt drug approval. Really lousy suff! But EMA and FDA are under way... The "safety-only" guy (friend to orange little-handed guy) didn't make it to head FDA, but I guess the fun-part as a staffer at the FDA will be very limited the next years. And will be nice to where the EMA turns to (maybe Hungary? Poland? Slovakia?) ‘May he live in interesting times.’ (nobody knows where it comes from) — Kindest regards, nobody |
ElMaestro ★★★ Denmark, 2017-04-03 22:05 (2909 d 22:22 ago) @ nobody Posting: # 17224 Views: 5,467 |
|
Can someone please sum up with max four sentences what this thread is about? ![]() Many thanks ![]() — Pass or fail! ElMaestro |
nobody nothing 2017-04-04 12:33 (2909 d 07:54 ago) @ ElMaestro Posting: # 17225 Views: 5,373 |
|
Helmut thinks Guideline is unscientific. Nobody thinks Guideline is pragmatic (as Guidelines are always politics, never science). The rest is this and that. My opinion: There is no such thing as science in pharma (any longer? ever been?). We do drug development and want marketing authorization. Sometimes we use scientific methods to achieve our goals. Sometimes it's just voodooo (worked in the past... ![]() — Kindest regards, nobody |
DavidManteigas ★ Portugal, 2017-04-04 14:04 (2909 d 06:24 ago) @ nobody Posting: # 17226 Views: 5,385 |
|
@nobody You would be surprised if you attended a primary care consultation in Portugal ![]() In my experience, physicians only know one thing about pharmacokinetics: the medicine half-life. Now, imagine when we start to talk about bioequivalence, AUC and stuff like that. They simply don't have the necessary knowledge to understand the concept of bioequivalence. The common wisdow (should be read "Medical Information Delegate" or more recently "Medical Science Liasion") is that generics are a lot different from innovators (there is always one history of some old lady who switched from innovator to generic and the generic was not as effective as the innovator). What happens frequently is that the patients asks for generics regardless of the opinion of the physician. In my opinion, after looking at so many concentration data from bioequivalence studies and the huge inter-subject variability associated, I don't believe that using a generic or innovator makes any difference in the therapeutic effect when compared with the diet or other extrinsic factors. The API is the same and in the same amount (with some variation, of course) so I can't understand what is the mistrust the medical community have with the generics other than information manipulation from industry. |
nobody nothing 2017-04-04 15:20 (2909 d 05:07 ago) @ DavidManteigas Posting: # 17227 Views: 5,407 |
|
@David Is that an invitation? ![]() Medicine (physician...) is not Pharmaceutics. End of story. When we go into clinical settings, everything changes. And that physicians don't know much about pharmaceutics/drugs is common knowledge all around the world. What makes the difference between generics and innovators (at least in the past) is the manufacture of the API, as innovators typically know the synthesis, know impurities and can check for. API from somewhere bought at cheapest price possible is basically trash later turned to "medicine". My opinion. Quality of APIs might also have changed in the last 10–15 years. McKinsey and the other thugs are nowadays everywhere... — Kindest regards, nobody |