Croosov ☆ Germany, 2017-01-04 21:29 (2991 d 14:11 ago) Posting: # 16932 Views: 4,990 |
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Hello, I have a question regarding method comparison. Passing Bablok regression is regarded as Gold-standard for method comparison. Do you know an example where it is better NOT to use Passing Bablok but another approach like Deming regression? Thank you! :) |
martin ★★ Austria, 2017-01-09 13:09 (2986 d 22:31 ago) @ Croosov Posting: # 16941 Views: 4,130 |
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Dear Croosov, Both Deming and Bablok approaches assume a linear relation where Deming has another assumption on the ratio of errors. However, I can highly recommend the following book which shows also approaches how to deal with replicates typically available in bio analytical studies. Title: Comparing Clinical Measurement Methods: A Practical Guide Author: Bendix Carstensen Publisher: Wiley, 2010 ISBN: 0470683007, 9780470683002 Length: 176 pages hope this helps Martin Edit: 204 €‽ Must be full of wisdom! SCNR [Helmut] |
mittyri ★★ Russia, 2017-01-11 12:54 (2984 d 22:46 ago) @ martin Posting: # 16943 Views: 4,062 |
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Dear Croosov and Martin, Full ACK with Martin. I would add that the authors of this book surprisingly did not mention Bablok approach at all (or I didn't find it). Regarding Deming they are also not optimistic: Deming regression is of limited practical use because it requires a priori knowledge of the ratio of the variances, which is rarely available without replicate measurements by each method. And in that case the model is actually identifiable (see Section 7) and hence Deming regression is superfluous. Deming regression can be used as a second step in the case where replicate measurements are made. The first step is to use the replicates to estimate the method-specific residual variances, and the second is Deming regression using the mean of replicates to estimate the relationship between methods I think you also had a look at this article: Validity of linear regression in method comparison studies: is it limited by the statistical model or the quality of the analytical input data? As far as I understand Bablok approach is robust (as non-parametric) but sensitive to the non-linearity. Sorry if I'm writing about some simple things — Kind regards, Mittyri |
Helmut ★★★ ![]() ![]() Vienna, Austria, 2017-01-11 14:03 (2984 d 21:37 ago) @ mittyri Posting: # 16944 Views: 4,067 |
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Dear all, just put in my two cents. ❝ Deming regression is of limited practical use because it requires a priori knowledge of the ratio of the variances, which is rarely available without replicate measurements by each method. If one is seriously interested in comparing methods I don’t see why replicates should not be measured. Theoretically the ideal weighting in regression is 1/σ2. The commonly applied 1/x, 1/y, ![]() Panos Macheras told me that he once published a paper about Deming’s regression where the variance-ratio is estimated by the following approach:
❝ Deming regression can be used as a second step in the case where replicate measurements are made. The first step is to use the replicates to estimate the method-specific residual variances, and the second is Deming regression using the mean of replicates to estimate the relationship between methods I don’t like this idea. Working with means would decrease the degrees of freedom of the model. If one has a priori specifications (e.g., intercept n.s. ≠ 0 and/or slope n.s. ≠ 1) with this approach the chance to pass the method comparison would increase. ❝ As far as I understand Bablok approach is robust (as non-parametric) but sensitive to the non-linearity. Yes. Although I’m a fan-boy of non-parametrics here I would be conservative. If there are outliers (i.e., methods do not agree at certain values) IMHO, this fact needs to be explored rather than ignored. — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! ![]() Helmut Schütz ![]() The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |