jerry ☆ Russia, 2015-08-26 10:37 (3494 d 17:12 ago) Posting: # 15332 Views: 14,132 |
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Hello) It's me again. When i performed 2x2x4 design i didn't get analysis of outliers detection I decided just use your example from here http://pkpd.kmu.edu.tw/bear/ testdata.csv with 2x2 design but after analysis i didn't get output outliers detection What did you do to get Analysis of outliers detection and related plots? i did so. 1.load data 2.nca 3.statistical analysis i have 3537281_2015-08-26_stat_sum.txt 6022843_2015-08-26_nca_pk.txt 3537281_2015-08-26_anova.txt here this https://www.sendspace.com/file/9dy3he Edit: category changed [Ohlbe] |
yjlee168 ★★★ ![]() ![]() Kaohsiung, Taiwan, 2015-08-26 10:53 (3494 d 16:56 ago) @ jerry Posting: # 15333 Views: 12,690 |
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Hi jerry Have you enabled ODA (outlier detection analysis) in your setting? See the picture (may be a little different from yours right now. I am still working on it.). Default is '0' which means ODA 'disable'. Please use ODA carefully. Search the Forum for ODA discussion. BTW, please select the correct category for your post next time. This should be category of R for BE/BA. Thanks. ![]() — All the best, -- Yung-jin Lee bear v2.9.2:- created by Hsin-ya Lee & Yung-jin Lee Kaohsiung, Taiwan https://www.pkpd168.com/bear Download link (updated) -> here |
jerry ☆ Russia, 2015-08-26 18:00 (3494 d 09:49 ago) @ yjlee168 Posting: # 15341 Views: 12,711 |
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Dear yjlee168. Yes you are right, if oda=1, then for design 2x2 i got oda stat:) But if oda=1 and design 2x2x4 i didn't get oda stat.txt)) does replicative design have any limits in Bear for ODA? |
yjlee168 ★★★ ![]() ![]() Kaohsiung, Taiwan, 2015-08-26 19:40 (3494 d 08:09 ago) @ jerry Posting: # 15343 Views: 12,546 |
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Dear jerry, No, ODA is only implemented only for 2x2x2 study with bear. I don't know if there is ODA for replicate design at the moment. — All the best, -- Yung-jin Lee bear v2.9.2:- created by Hsin-ya Lee & Yung-jin Lee Kaohsiung, Taiwan https://www.pkpd168.com/bear Download link (updated) -> here |
jerry ☆ Russia, 2015-08-26 19:58 (3494 d 07:51 ago) @ yjlee168 Posting: # 15344 Views: 12,649 |
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That explains a lot thank you ![]() |
d_labes ★★★ Berlin, Germany, 2015-08-27 10:12 (3493 d 17:37 ago) @ yjlee168 Posting: # 15347 Views: 12,467 |
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Dear Yung-jin! ❝ No, ODA is only implemented only for 2x2x2 study with bear. I don't know if there is ODA for replicate design at the moment. Have a look into: Robert Schall, Laszlo Endrenyi, Arne Ring "Residuals and Outliers in Replicate Design Crossover Studies" Journal of Biopharmaceutical Statistics, 20: 4, 835-849 (2010) DOI: 10.1080/10543401003618876 — Regards, Detlew |
yjlee168 ★★★ ![]() ![]() Kaohsiung, Taiwan, 2015-08-27 10:51 (3493 d 16:57 ago) @ d_labes Posting: # 15350 Views: 12,410 |
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Dear Detlew, Many thanks for your info update. Hmm.. '...Removal of single-data-point outliers from analysis may be justified in certain cases.' I should take a look on it. — All the best, -- Yung-jin Lee bear v2.9.2:- created by Hsin-ya Lee & Yung-jin Lee Kaohsiung, Taiwan https://www.pkpd168.com/bear Download link (updated) -> here |
d_labes ★★★ Berlin, Germany, 2015-08-27 11:17 (3493 d 16:32 ago) @ yjlee168 Posting: # 15352 Views: 12,405 |
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Dear Yung-jin, ❝ Many thanks for your info update. Hmm.. '...Removal of single-data-point outliers from analysis may be justified in certain cases.' I should take a look on it. You have mail. But don't invest too much. I myselve usually don't deal with oulier detection at because by most regulations it's not allowed to exclude data on statistical reasons alone. At the time of statistical analysis you may not have the possibilities to obtain other reasons which support your outlier finding. Usually it's rather too late for that. And you usually can't convince regulators that other reasons are not far-fetched. — Regards, Detlew |
yjlee168 ★★★ ![]() ![]() Kaohsiung, Taiwan, 2015-08-27 11:30 (3493 d 16:19 ago) @ d_labes Posting: # 15354 Views: 12,588 |
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Dear Detlew, ❝ You have mail. Got it. Thank you so much. ❝ But don't invest too much... Very agree with your points. ❝ ... And you usually can't convince regulators that other reasons are not far-fetched. — All the best, -- Yung-jin Lee bear v2.9.2:- created by Hsin-ya Lee & Yung-jin Lee Kaohsiung, Taiwan https://www.pkpd168.com/bear Download link (updated) -> here |
mittyri ★★ Russia, 2015-08-27 12:20 (3493 d 15:29 ago) @ yjlee168 Posting: # 15355 Views: 12,485 |
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Dear Yung-jin, Dear Detlew, You're absolutely right, most regulations are'nt allowed to exclude data on statistical reasons alone. I explored forum some time ago searching the solution for "EMA Crippled model" (possible solutions for outliers detection during CVwr estimation according to the EMA GL and Q&A). Very lengthy posts are here, here and here BTW I didn't find the exact solution for R. Could you please enlighten me? Yung-jin, it would be great to implement CVwr estimation in Bear according to the European requirements for replicate designs. — Kind regards, Mittyri |
d_labes ★★★ Berlin, Germany, 2015-08-27 12:53 (3493 d 14:56 ago) @ mittyri Posting: # 15356 Views: 12,537 |
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Dear mittyri, ❝ BTW I didn't find the exact solution for R. Could you please enlighten me? Which "exact solution" you are seeking for ![]() — Regards, Detlew |
mittyri ★★ Russia, 2015-08-27 13:00 (3493 d 14:49 ago) @ d_labes Posting: # 15357 Views: 12,477 |
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Dear Detlew, I mean the R code for CVwr estimation and outliers detection in Reference dataset according to this point of EMA GL: "The applicant should justify that the calculated intra-subject variability is a reliable estimate and that it is not the result of outliers." — Kind regards, Mittyri |
d_labes ★★★ Berlin, Germany, 2015-08-27 15:17 (3493 d 12:32 ago) @ mittyri Posting: # 15358 Views: 12,399 |
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Dear Mittyri, ❝ I mean the R code for CVwr estimation and outliers detection in Reference dataset according to ... EMA GL: since I have to do my daily work with SAS I don't have an R solution for doing this out of the box. But I think it should not that complicated to do the estimation of CVwR and this could be programmed even by a novice in R. Part I: Estimation of CVwR
It is another story and is a grey zone. An outlier test is not expected. So simply create a boxplot from the residuals, cross your fingers and hope that not suspected "outliers" are visible:
This is of course only a rough description just in this moment came to my mind. Intended to give you a starting point. Needs to be tested and validated before going in production. Needs also to make a nice printout of the results. It's up to you. — Regards, Detlew |