bkrao ☆ India, 2015-08-06 11:12 (3514 d 16:14 ago) Posting: # 15185 Views: 13,178 |
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Hi, I need clarity in the sample size calculation. My straight question, "what is the maximum expected sample size (for two way crossover design) with the intra subject coefficient of variation of pilot study data around 15%. Kindly clarify. I have the following data, Observed Pilot study ISCV% - 12.29% With the observed pilot study (two way crossover design) ISCV 12.29%, is it possible to expect the 15% ISCV or not for pivotal study design? What should be the null ratio considerate for the same and under what circumstances we should go for widening of the null ration beyond the 95 - 105% limits or we can in all cases? During sample size calculation, is there is any restriction to expect the null test/reference ratios in between 95.00 to 105.00% only? I wont feel so. And also kindly let me know if there is any separate link to access the Diletti et. al. (1991) sample size calculation article.? If available, kindly share the same. Thanks & Regards, Balaga Koteswara Rao, Cadila Pharmaceuticals Ltd, Ahmedabad, India. |
BE-proff ● 2015-08-06 16:19 (3514 d 11:07 ago) @ bkrao Posting: # 15187 Views: 11,908 |
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Hi,bkrao PASS simulator says 18 subjects will be enough with power 90% mean ratio can be given from your pilot study with 12% COV. I think you can always refer to that pilot study to justify parameters selection for size calculation |
d_labes ★★★ Berlin, Germany, 2015-08-06 17:25 (3514 d 10:01 ago) @ BE-proff Posting: # 15188 Views: 12,012 |
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Dear BE-proff, ❝ PASS simulator says ... What is PASS simulator? What does it simulate? IMHO for the question asked simulations are not the thing needed. There is an analytic solution for the problem to calculate the power of a 2x2 crossover given the sample size, assumptions about the 'true' intra-subject CV and 'true' ratio T/R. It is described in the Diletti paper Balaga mentioned. That solution can be used to estimate the sample size. BTW: I get using the R add-on package PowerTOST which uses the exact power formula based on Owen's Q:library(PowerTOST) @Balaga: There are some lectures/presentations given by Helmut on the topic 'Power/Sample size' which I highly recommend you. Moreover there is an extra category in this forum 'Power / sample size' with numerous discussions for your question(s). — Regards, Detlew |
BE-proff ● 2015-08-07 22:08 (3513 d 05:18 ago) @ d_labes Posting: # 15195 Views: 11,616 |
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Dear d_labes ❝ What is PASS simulator? What does it simulate? I meant NCSS PASS- special soft for sample size calculation. Why simulation? I have always thought that PASS calculates via simulation. Am I mistaken? ![]() ❝ ❝ ❝ PASS returns the same result! ![]() Edit: Full quote removed. Please delete everything from the text of the original poster which is not necessary in understanding your answer; see also this post! [Helmut] |
Helmut ★★★ ![]() ![]() Vienna, Austria, 2015-08-08 04:32 (3512 d 22:53 ago) @ BE-proff Posting: # 15196 Views: 11,825 |
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Hi BE-proff, ❝ I have always thought that PASS calculates via simulation. Am I mistaken? Yes. The documentation of PASS refers to Julious1 (see esp. pp1961–2). Given that, the approximation by the noncentral t-distribution is used. Example 2 from PASS’ manual: 2×2 crossover, target power 0.90, α 0.05, acceptance range 0.80–1.25, θ0 1, CV 0.25:
Only StudySize and ElMaestro’s EFG have the option to simulate studies (see here) which should asymptotically approach the true value.
— Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! ![]() Helmut Schütz ![]() The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
BE-proff ● 2015-08-09 17:36 (3511 d 09:50 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 15198 Views: 11,404 |
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Dear Helmut, Thanks a lot for clarification! Looks like it is time for me to start learning R ![]() |
Helmut ★★★ ![]() ![]() Vienna, Austria, 2015-08-09 18:40 (3511 d 08:46 ago) @ BE-proff Posting: # 15199 Views: 11,460 |
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Hi BE-proff, ❝ Looks like it is time for me to start learning R Not necessary (here). Install PowerTOST from one of the CRAN-mirrors. Then load the library by typing library(PowerTOST) in the R-console.For an overview of available functions type help(package=PowerTOST) or for the one we are using here help(sampleN.TOST) . The order of parameters is not important (here as given in my previous post); type:
sampleN.TOST ’s defaults (design="2x2" , alpha=0.05 , theta1=0.8 , theta2=1.25 , method="exact" ). You get the same output with
method="noncentral" or method="shifted" .The most common settinge are targetpower=0.8 and theta0=0.95 (therefore, defaults as well). In such cases it is enough to type just:
![]() You can also directly copy/paste code which is posted here to the R-console. Saves time and avoids errors. You can paste the code to any text-file and save it with the extension .R To execute it: In the R-console: File > Source R code… — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! ![]() Helmut Schütz ![]() The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
d_labes ★★★ Berlin, Germany, 2015-08-10 13:30 (3510 d 13:56 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 15211 Views: 11,405 |
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Dear Helmut, ❝ ...The documentation of PASS refers to Julious1 (see esp. pp1961–2). Given that, the approximation by the noncentral t-distribution is used. IMHO here you err. They also refer to Phillips. And this would mean Owen's Q or some sort of. Since non-central t is a very good approximation in most not-extrem cases it's not that easy to find an example for a numeric inspection. But remember our Captn's extremal question: power in a 2,2,2-BE trial at N=6, CV=65% and T/R=95% which lead to such famous R-implementations like "EatMyShorts" and "Apfelstrudel" ![]() PowerTOST .Method power On the other hand PASS uses in the module for "Higher-Order Cross-Over Design" the crude shifted central t-approximation as described in the help pages, although they refer also to Phillips, but later to Chow and Liu (2000?, 1999)*. Numerical inspection gives not so good agreement with f.i. their example 1: Design = 2x2x3, theta0=0.96, CV=0.4 PowerTOST The reason of the not so good numerical agreement is the different degrees of freedom. PASS uses a model with carry-over included exactly as described in the literature cited below* which reduces the df by 1 compared to PowerTOST. *Chow, S.C. and Liu, J.P. Design and Analysis of Bioavailability and Bioequivalence Studies. Marcel Dekker. New York 1999 Chen, K.W.; Chow, S.C.; and Li, G. A Note on Sample Size Determination for Bioequivalence Studies with Higher-Order Crossover Designs. J. Pharmacokinetics and Biopharmaceutics, Volume 25, No. 6, pages 753-765. 1997 — Regards, Detlew |
Helmut ★★★ ![]() ![]() Vienna, Austria, 2015-08-07 03:21 (3514 d 00:05 ago) @ bkrao Posting: # 15189 Views: 11,998 |
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Hi Balaga, ❝ "what is the maximum expected sample size (for two way crossover design) with the intra subject coefficient of variation of pilot study data around 15%. It depends. ![]() ❝ I have the following data, ❝ Observed Pilot study ISCV% - 12.29% Sample size of the pilot? ❝ With the observed pilot study (two way crossover design) ISCV 12.29%, is it possible to expect the 15% ISCV or not for pivotal study design? Yes. Once you’ll tell us the sample size of the pilot maybe more about it… ❝ What should be the null ratio considerate for the same and under what circumstances we should go for widening of the null ration beyond the 95 - 105% limits or we can in all cases? If you are not dealing with a HVD/HVDP and the GMR in the pilot was within this range, fine. Otherwise expecting a larger deviation is not a bad idea. ❝ During sample size calculation, is there is any restriction to expect the null test/reference ratios in between 95.00 to 105.00% only? I wont feel so. Correct. BTW, power curves are symmetric around 0 in the log-domain. Therefore, you get the same power at 95% and at 1/95% ~105.26% (log ±0.051293). If you expect a 5% deviation of T from R (and are not sure about the direction), always estimate the sample size at 95%. ❝ […] if there is any separate link to access the Diletti et. al. (1991) sample size calculation article.? Check your ![]() IMHO, Diletti’s “Table 1” is of historic interest only (too wide step sizes). — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! ![]() Helmut Schütz ![]() The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
bkrao ☆ India, 2015-08-07 08:06 (3513 d 19:20 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 15191 Views: 11,770 |
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We have enrolled with the sample size of 14 and considered the 13 subjects for final statistical analysis. Thank you Helmut for your valuable suggestions. Why we need to expect the Null (true) ratio = 0.95 only? Edit: Merged with a later (deleted) post. You can edit your posts within 24 hours (see the Forum’s FAQ #3). [Helmut] |
Helmut ★★★ ![]() ![]() Vienna, Austria, 2015-08-07 15:53 (3513 d 11:33 ago) @ bkrao Posting: # 15193 Views: 12,005 |
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Hi Balaga, ❝ ❝ Observed Pilot study ISCV% - 12.29% ❝ We […] considered the 13 subjects for final statistical analysis. ❝ ❝ […] is it possible to expect the 15% ISCV or not for pivotal study design? Let’s consider the CV first. Calculate the upper confidence limit of the CV you observed in the pilot. Then you could calculate the probability of a CV which is ≥15%. R-code:
CVCL() . Let’s say you want to have a 90% chance (α 0.1):
❝ Why we need to expect the Null (true) ratio = 0.95 only? I never said that. The θ0 is unforgiving. Power curves are relatively flat close to 1, but become increasingly steep further away than ±5%. Had you any chance to look at my presentations as Detlew suggested? What does the 90% CI of a BE-study tell us? That the true ratio lies with a probability of 0.9 somewhere within its CI. Let’s assume the best (you observed a GMR of 1 in the pilot):
Yet another story is the measured content. The EMA allows a dose-correction only if you provide a sound justification that it was impossible to find a batch of the reference which differs ≤5% from the test. Otherwise, any measured difference is ignored (i.e., DT ≡ DR has to be assumed). No analytical method is “perfect”. Let’s presume an amazing method (accuracy 100% and imprecision ±2.5%):
Rule of thumb for a ~95% CI: x±2(100CV%/x). Talk to your analyst(s) about what to expect… I think it is much more interesting to live with uncertainty than to live with answers that might be wrong. Richard Feynman
— Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! ![]() Helmut Schütz ![]() The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
bkrao ☆ India, 2015-08-08 08:03 (3512 d 19:23 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 15197 Views: 11,596 |
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Thanks you very much Helmut and all others who shared their valuable suggestions and spent time. Regards, Balaga Koteswara Rao |
jag009 ★★★ NJ, 2015-08-10 22:08 (3510 d 05:18 ago) @ bkrao Posting: # 15215 Views: 11,281 |
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Hi Balaga, Sorry for the off topic question. Do you happen to know Bhaswat Chakraborty? Thanks John |
bkrao ☆ India, 2015-08-10 22:44 (3510 d 04:42 ago) @ jag009 Posting: # 15216 Views: 11,372 |
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Ha, He is my overall head. I knew him. Off course he even knows me. He is very great, knowledgeable person. Why so..? Thanks & Regards, Balaga Koteswara Rao. Edit: Moved from a direct e-mail sent to me. [Helmut] |