Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2013-12-10 15:05 (3954 d 21:11 ago) Posting: # 12028 Views: 15,175 |
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Dear all, for pivotal BE studies EMA requires that The test product should usually originate from a batch of ≥1/10 of production scale or 100,000 units, whichever is greater, unless otherwise justified. Do you know of a corresponding requirement by the FDA? In the Summary Table 11 sizes of the bio-batch and production batch have to be reported. — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
jag009 ★★★ NJ, 2013-12-10 21:03 (3954 d 15:13 ago) (edited on 2013-12-11 16:21) @ Helmut Posting: # 12032 Views: 12,461 |
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Hi Helmut, ❝ Do you know of a corresponding requirement by the FDA? In the Summary Table 11 sizes of the bio-batch and production batch have to be reported. We always make > 100,000 tablets. See page 2 of FDA Guidance I know it's old... Hope that helps... John |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2013-12-11 00:32 (3954 d 11:44 ago) @ jag009 Posting: # 12033 Views: 11,871 |
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Hi John, ❝ See page 2 of FDA Guidance I know it's old... Oh boy, I completely have forgotten this one! Now I know where the Europeans copypasted from. Nothing was stated in the ’91 version. Appeared for the first time in the ’98 draft and was carried over ever since. — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
jag009 ★★★ NJ, 2013-12-11 16:23 (3953 d 19:53 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 12036 Views: 11,880 |
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Hi Helmut, ❝ Oh boy, I completely have forgotten this one! I confirmed with my formulators for you as well They can't be wrong hehe. John |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2013-12-11 16:26 (3953 d 19:50 ago) @ jag009 Posting: # 12037 Views: 11,897 |
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Hi John, ❝ I confirmed with my formulators for you as well They can't be wrong hehe. THX! Did you ask the guy with the Buster Keaton face again? BTW: Your partial replicate nightmare (#10563). Did you receive an answer from Mr Schuirmann? — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
jag009 ★★★ NJ, 2013-12-11 17:21 (3953 d 18:55 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 12038 Views: 11,853 |
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Hi Helmut, ❝ THX! Did you ask the guy with the Buster Keaton face again? Nope, I asked the chefs (formulators) and RA. ❝ BTW: Your partial replicate nightmare (#10563). Did you receive an answer from Mr Schuirmann? Nope. I emailed him two questions and no feedback so far (2nd one was about stats for a partial rep study having 2 groups). John |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2013-12-11 17:29 (3953 d 18:47 ago) @ jag009 Posting: # 12039 Views: 11,776 |
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Hi John, ❝ ❝ BTW: Your partial replicate nightmare (#10563). Did you receive an answer from Mr Schuirmann? ❝ ❝ Nope. I emailed him two questions and no feedback so far (2nd one was about stats for a partial rep study having 2 groups). So far? Unbelievable. Ask your legal department to get refund from the FDA for the study you performed exactly following the guidance only to get from SAS:
— Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
jag009 ★★★ NJ, 2013-12-12 00:16 (3953 d 12:00 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 12041 Views: 11,822 |
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Hi Helmut! ❝ So far? Unbelievable. Ask your legal department to get refund from the FDA for the study you performed exactly following the guidance only to get from SAS: They don't give refund... The govt just went through "sequester" this year... Also it was a pilot study. Strangely, I emailed FDA about stability and they replied back the next day! Very responsive from that group! John |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2013-12-12 15:34 (3952 d 20:42 ago) @ jag009 Posting: # 12047 Views: 11,771 |
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Hi John, ❝ […] The govt just went through "sequester" this year... … and avoided another one this week… So you are sitting in the anteroom for more then ½ a year. ❝ Also it was a pilot study. Nevertheless, you got no direct estimates from the ABE code – only from the RSABE part. — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
Beholder ★ Russia, 2018-06-21 11:21 (2301 d 01:55 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 18936 Views: 9,590 |
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Hi Helmut and all! ❝ Now I know where the Europeans copypasted from. I went through the forum but still could not find the information. Ok, we know that it is "highly likely" () that the EMA took "1/10 or 100,000 rule" from FDA. But why did FDA deside to use 1/10 or 100,000 rule? Why not, for instance, "1/15 and 150,000" or 100,000 is just round number and that's all? Thank you in advance — Best regards Beholder |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2018-06-21 17:05 (2300 d 20:11 ago) @ Beholder Posting: # 18944 Views: 9,384 |
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Hi Beholder, ❝ But why did FDA deside to use 1/10 or 100,000 rule? […] 100,000 is just round number and that's all? We find nice numbers which are “easy to remember” everywhere.
Duno which justification you could give for a smaller biobatch under condition a). — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
Beholder ★ Russia, 2018-06-22 12:33 (2300 d 00:43 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 18946 Views: 9,304 |
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Hi, Helmut! ❝ We find nice numbers which are “easy to remember” everywhere. Thx a lot for clarification. Im just comparing the EU legislation and EEU legislation because it is very similar. May be you or other members of the forum know how can one understand whether we need to perform BEQ study in case of changes in amount of tablets in production batch or not? I refer to the table B.II.b.4 Change in the batch size (including batch size ranges) of the finished product which says (point c): c) The change requires assessment of the comparability of a biological/immunological medicinal product or the change in batch size requires a new bioequivalence study (my emphasis) — Best regards Beholder |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2018-06-22 17:12 (2299 d 20:04 ago) @ Beholder Posting: # 18948 Views: 9,278 |
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Hi Beholder, ❝ […] whether we need to perform BEQ study in case of changes in amount of tablets in production batch or not? I refer to the table B.II.b.4 Change in the batch size (including batch size ranges) of the finished product Yes because that’s a Type II (i.e., a major) variation. Only if the conditions for a biowaiver are applicable you could get around an in vivo study. — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
ElMaestro ★★★ Denmark, 2018-06-22 12:10 (2300 d 01:06 ago) @ Beholder Posting: # 18945 Views: 9,303 |
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Hi Beholder, ❝ I went through the forum but still could not find the information. Ok, we know that it is "highly likely" () that the EMA took "1/10 or 100 000 rule" from FDA. But why did FDA deside to use 1/10 or 100 000 rule? Why not, for instance, "1/15 and 150 000" or 100 000 is just round number and thats all? Not actually an answer to your question but a remark. Empirically, in the field of BE it is exceedingly rare that the answer to a question starting with "why?" about guideline requirements will change anything in practice for the person or entity trying to comply. "Why?", simply stated, often is somewhat founded in frustration or initiates it, but "Why?"" rarely leads to solutions. Having been a regulator myself, I am aware of all the effort it takes to revise a single sentence in a guideline. What you read in guidelines is the product of science and scientific compromise. The latter is a very significant part of it all. — Pass or fail! ElMaestro |
Beholder ★ Russia, 2018-06-22 13:04 (2300 d 00:12 ago) (edited on 2018-06-22 13:54) @ ElMaestro Posting: # 18947 Views: 9,228 |
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Hi, ElMaestro, ❝ Not actually an answer to your question but a remark. Thanks for your remark. I like it and would make a remark to your remark as well. ❝ Empirically, in the field of BE it is exceedingly rare that the answer to a question starting with "why?" about guideline requirements will change anything in practice for the person or entity trying to comply. IMHO, the answer very often gives the understanding of the possibly hidden things which are behind simple sentence in the GL in order to plan the activities accordingly. Most probably the knowledge obtained now will be linked with another fact in future and will give the opportunity to undertand requirements deeper in case of not clear situation with unpredictable outcome. ❝ "Why?", simply stated, often is somewhat founded in frustration or initiates it, but "Why?"" rarely leads to solutions. Questions, by the nature, and particularly "Why?" often lead the scientific process. Asking "Why?" the brightest minds from the begining of development of humankind gave us almost all discoveries and made our picture of the world more detailed and precise. Now based on these achivements we can go further. And as it was said: "Well, I tried, didn't I? Goddamnit, at least I did that." — Best regards Beholder |
Helmut ★★★ Vienna, Austria, 2018-06-22 17:17 (2299 d 19:59 ago) @ Beholder Posting: # 18949 Views: 9,280 |
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Hi Beholder, ❝ Questions, by the nature, and particularly "Why?" often lead the scientific process. Asking "Why?" the brightest minds from the begining of development of humankind gave us almost all discoveries and made our picture of the world more detailed and precise. Are you sure? Science is wonderfully equipped to answer the question “How?” but it gets terribly confused when you ask the question “Why?” Erwin Chargaff — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! Helmut Schütz The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
Beholder ★ Russia, 2018-10-18 11:40 (2182 d 01:36 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 19465 Views: 8,494 |
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Hi Helmut! I thought that carved in stone dogmas from sacramental person would not be in favour here. But nevertheless. Yes, I’m sure. Asking why is the root of a scientific mindset. Eraldo BanovacBut what do you think?! — Best regards Beholder |