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AngusMcLean ★★ USA, 2014-02-04 04:14 (4523 d 14:39 ago) Posting: # 12330 Views: 3,288 |
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For the purpose of a regulatory report when reporting plasma concentrations in a Table of a PK report one uses the same precision as the numbers provided by the analytical laboratory. These are the numbers that are used for the pk calculations. In Europe actual times are recommended of the blood draws when calculating PK parameters. An actual time e.g. 16 hours :10 minutes, can be an awkward number as a decimal (16.166666.......hours). It is the full precision available of the actual time number that one uses in the computer calculation, but for a tabulation in a regulatory report I will round the time to 2 decimals for convenience. There will be another corresponding Table describing the actual times in hours and minutes in the report. Any comments, ANGUS |
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Helmut ★★★ ![]() Vienna, Austria, 2014-02-04 04:57 (4523 d 13:56 ago) @ AngusMcLean Posting: # 12331 Views: 2,889 |
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Hi Angus, ❝ For the purpose of a regulatory report when reporting plasma concentrations in a Table of a PK report one uses the same precision as the numbers provided by the analytical laboratory. These are the numbers that are used for the pk calculations. Hopefully. With the limited accuracy/precision of bioanalytical methods reporting too many figures is meaningless. Let’s say you have a really good method (5% AP overall) – does it make sense to report a result like 3.142? Even reporting only three significant figures would imply that the method is able to distinguish between 3.1415 and 3.1424 – a precision of ~0.2%. If data are electronically transfered from the analyst to the biostatistician, the former should not only format the results as in the report, but actually round them. Otherwise there are discrepancies between paper and electronic data which may raise unnecessary questions. Having 3.14 in the report and 3.14159265358979 in the file is stupid. Many analysts have great difficulties in digesting this message. Tell them that with 5% CV the 95% confidence interval of π is 2.83–3.45. ![]() ❝ […] An actual time e.g. 16 hours :10 minutes, can be an awkward number as a decimal (16.166666.......hours). It is the full precision available of the actual time number that one uses in the computer calculation, but for a tabulation in a regulatory report I will round the time to 2 decimals for convenience. I wouldn’t do that. The smallest temporal resolution of an EDCS I know is Parexel’s ClinBase™ with four seconds (if barcode-readers are connected). Even with such data giving time in decimal-hours to more than three decimals is meaningless. If paper CRFs are used (resolution one minute) two decimals are enough. If you opt for full precision, you should either give more decimals (I use five to six) or report time in ISO 8601-format (i.e., hh:mm[:ss]).
❝ There will be another corresponding Table describing the actual times in hours and minutes in the report. Why not keeping everything in one place? — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! ![]() Helmut Schütz ![]() The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
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AngusMcLean ★★ USA, 2014-02-05 02:11 (4522 d 16:41 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 12337 Views: 2,729 |
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Thank you Helmut: there is no problem with the precision of the plasma concentrations. They were provided with appropriate precision. I did anticipate that.The problem I have is that I do not have a system for dealing with exact times of blood draws. I read some papers and the workers for their PK data analysis used full precision for the plasma concentrations and times. So I used exact times with the full precision for my data analysis. Now that I have done that I will Tabulate my exact times to 5 decimals and include such Tables in the PK report. In future I think I will round my exact times to two decimals, since I think that is enough. I will then perform PK data analysis using the rounded numbers. Do agree that 2 decimals for times is OK...yes? Angus |
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Helmut ★★★ ![]() Vienna, Austria, 2014-02-06 02:38 (4521 d 16:14 ago) @ AngusMcLean Posting: # 12350 Views: 2,714 |
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Hi Angus, ❝ In future I think I will round my exact times to two decimals, since I think that is enough. I will then perform PK data analysis using the rounded numbers. ❝ ❝ Do agree that 2 decimals for times is OK...yes? I feel that if sampling times are recorded to ±1 minute rounding hours to two decimals is too “granular”. Time is the independent variable in PK, so I would not apply aggressive rounding. Another idea: Use minutes rather than hours for time. In Phoenix you can have an additional column keeping hours in full precision. Calculate AUCs as [minutes × mass / volume] and divide just once at the end by 60. In the tables show minutes and in the plots use the hour-column. What ’bout that? — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! ![]() Helmut Schütz ![]() The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |


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I did anticipate that.