wxp ☆ China, 2013-05-27 12:34 (4366 d 05:04 ago) Posting: # 10661 Views: 14,680 |
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Dear all, We did a typical 2×2 cross-over study for BE study in 23 subjecct. But the results was not BE. We handled the data by PHX 6.3 and got its inter- and intra-subject CV(>30%) (see below). We considered it is a highly variable drug (HVD) and also realized the sample size was not enough. So, we want to add some more subjects and evaluate the BE again with all the data. I am confusing about the sample size calculation. Dependent Units Parameter Estimate 1. Which PK parameter should I use to calculate the sample size? I chose the intra-sub CV of AUClast and used PowerTOST to calculate the sample size (see results below): sampleN.TOST(CV=0.41) As I understand n=70 means that there are actually only 35 subjects participate the study. So we only need 35-23=12 subjects more to perform a 2-way cross design. Is it correct? 2. If I consider it as a two-stage design, should I use alpha=0.0294 to calculate the sample size (see below)? If so, we need more subjects(40-23=17). sampleN.TOST(alpha=0.0294,CV=0.41) 3. Is the Null (true) ratio the one calculated from the first 23-subject study? PHX 6.3 results below. If so, I should set "theta0=0.98" in the sampleN.TOST function. Dependent Ratio_%Ref_ Thank you in advance for any comments. Edit: Category changed. [Helmut] — Best regards, Xipei China |
Dr_Dan ★★ Germany, 2013-05-27 14:28 (4366 d 03:10 ago) @ wxp Posting: # 10662 Views: 13,467 |
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Dear wxp a BE study is a pivotal study and so unfortunately it will not be possible to add another group of subjects since this has to be pre-specified in the protocol. Furthermore appropriate steps to preserve the overall type I error (patient’s risk) have to be considered. For further information please see Potvin D, Diliberti CE, Hauck WW, Parr AF, Schuirmann DJ, and RA Smith: Sequential design approaches for bioequivalence studies with crossover designs. Pharmaceut Statist 7/4, 245–62 (2008) Kind regards Dan — Kind regards and have a nice day Dr_Dan |
wxp ☆ China, 2013-05-27 16:19 (4366 d 01:20 ago) @ Dr_Dan Posting: # 10664 Views: 13,426 |
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❝ a BE study is a pivotal study and so unfortunately it will not be possible to add another group of subjects since this has to be pre-specified in the protocol. ... Thank you, Dr_Dan! ![]() — Best regards, Xipei China |
Helmut ★★★ ![]() ![]() Vienna, Austria, 2013-05-27 15:51 (4366 d 01:48 ago) @ wxp Posting: # 10663 Views: 13,975 |
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Dear Xipei, shit happens. You can’t simply add subjects to a failed study since the patients’s risk will not be maintained at ≤5%. Translating statistics into simple words: You have already “consumed” the entire 5% in the first study and nothing is “left” for the add-on. Some remarks for the future:
— Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! ![]() Helmut Schütz ![]() The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
Shuanghe ★★ Spain, 2013-05-27 17:59 (4365 d 23:40 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 10666 Views: 13,500 |
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Hi Helmut, ❝ It doesn’t make sense to plan for BE of AUC (CV 41%) since you will fail with Cmax (CV 65%). From the Xipei's habit of estimating sample size with AUC I assume this is a study for Chinese regulation. If so, the Chinese BE guideline reads that criterion for AUC is 80-125 but for Cmax, hold-on, deep breath, …, 70-143% (and the study doesn't even have to be of replicate design ![]() OK, now you can pick the draw you just dropped on the ground. ![]() — All the best, Shuanghe |
Helmut ★★★ ![]() ![]() Vienna, Austria, 2013-05-27 18:21 (4365 d 23:17 ago) @ Shuanghe Posting: # 10667 Views: 13,507 |
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Hi Two Rivers! ❝ From the Xipei's habit of estimating sample size with AUC I assume this is a study for Chinese regulation. If so, the Chinese BE guideline reads that criterion for AUC is 80-125 but for Cmax, hold-on, deep breath, …, 70-143% (and the study doesn't even have to be of replicate design Oh wow! With such limits AUC is really the win-loose-metric. Are you referring to the 2005 GL? 等效判断标准,一般规定,经对数转换后的受试制剂的AUC0→t 在参比 制剂的80%-125%范围,受试制剂的Cmax 在参比制剂的70%-143%范围。 I wish him good luck in setting up simulations to find a suitable αadj. for [0.70–1.43]. None of the published methods would work. ❝ OK, now you can pick the draw you just dropped on the ground. Well, hundreds of products were approved in the EU with those limits – but decades ago… — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! ![]() Helmut Schütz ![]() The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
wxp ☆ China, 2013-05-28 08:10 (4365 d 09:28 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 10670 Views: 13,609 |
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Hi, Shuanghe and Helmut, ❝ ❝ From the Xipei's habit of estimating sample size with AUC I assume this is a study for Chinese regulation. If so, the Chinese BE guideline reads that criterion for AUC is 80-125 but for Cmax, hold-on, deep breath, …, 70-143% (and the study doesn't even have to be of replicate design ❝ Oh wow! With such limits AUC is really the win-loose-metric. Are you referring to the 2005 GL? 等效判断标准,一般规定,经对数转换后的受试制剂的AUC0→t 在参比 制剂的80%-125%范围,受试制剂的Cmax 在参比制剂的70%-143%范围。 The Chinese criteria of Cmax changed in 2010 to 75%~133% according to the latest guideline (Appendix XIXB in Chinese Pharmacopoeia (version 2010)). The criteria of AUC is still 80%~125%. Helmut, it really surprised me that you can read Chinese. ❝ Well, hundreds of products were approved in the EU with those limits – but decades ago… Chinese regulation improved these years, but there is still no specific guidelines on the BE of HVD. However,Chinese experts are very interested in it. P.S. Chinese FDA changed the name to China Food and Drug Administration (CFDA) ![]() — Best regards, Xipei China |
Helmut ★★★ ![]() ![]() Vienna, Austria, 2013-05-28 15:02 (4365 d 02:36 ago) @ wxp Posting: # 10674 Views: 13,634 |
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Hi Xipei! ❝ The Chinese criteria of Cmax changed in 2010 to 75%~133% according to the latest guideline (Appendix XIXB in Chinese Pharmacopoeia (version 2010)). THX, good to know! ❝ Helmut, it really surprised me that you can read Chinese. I can’t. I only know how to copy/paste and work with Google-translate. ![]() ❝ P.S. Chinese FDA changed the name to China Food and Drug Administration (CFDA) THX again. I updated the Guideline-collection accordingly. — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! ![]() Helmut Schütz ![]() The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
Shuanghe ★★ Spain, 2013-06-14 13:05 (4348 d 04:34 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 10789 Views: 13,108 |
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Thank you Xipei, I didn't know there was update of the 2005 Chinese guidance. ![]() ❝ THX again. I updated the Guideline-collection accordingly. Helmut, i don't know how to upload to your web but you can download the pdf file here: http://wenku.baidu.com/view/e641f7fdc8d376eeaeaa3171.html Shuanghe — All the best, Shuanghe |
Helmut ★★★ ![]() ![]() Vienna, Austria, 2013-06-14 16:22 (4348 d 01:17 ago) @ Shuanghe Posting: # 10792 Views: 13,182 |
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Hi Shuanghe! ❝ Helmut, i don't know how to upload to your web Doesn’t work. Only image-uploads are possible here. ❝ but you can download the pdf file here: ❝ http://wenku.baidu.com/view/e641f7fdc8d376eeaeaa3171.html THX; I will add the link to the Guideline-collection. BTW, is calculation of AUC0→∞ as AUC0→tn+Ctn/λz (given on page 5) mandatory or just a suggestion, i.e., can one use the estimated Ctn instead? — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! ![]() Helmut Schütz ![]() The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
Shuanghe ★★ Spain, 2013-06-14 16:56 (4348 d 00:43 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 10794 Views: 13,030 |
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❝ BTW, is calculation of AUC0→∞ as AUC0→tn+Ctn/λz (given on page 5) mandatory or just a suggestion, i.e., can one use the estimated Ctn instead? It read that Ctn is the concentration at the last point. No mention of observed or predicted; but from the context I'd say that they are asking for the observed. — All the best, Shuanghe |
Helmut ★★★ ![]() ![]() Vienna, Austria, 2013-06-14 18:11 (4347 d 23:28 ago) @ Shuanghe Posting: # 10798 Views: 13,114 |
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Hi Shuanghe! ❝ […] but from the context I'd say that they are asking for the observed. Correct. I is not clear to me whether the observed Ctn is mandatory to be used. — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! ![]() Helmut Schütz ![]() The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
wxp ☆ China, 2013-05-28 07:13 (4365 d 10:26 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 10668 Views: 13,356 |
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❝ ... Translating statistics into simple words: You have already “consumed” the entire 5% in the first study and nothing is “left” for the add-on. ❝ Some remarks for the future:Always plan for the PK metric with the higher CV (in most cases Cmax)... Thank you, Helmut, for your explanation and answers to my questions. I learnt a lot from the failed BE study. It is worth the time to make a deliberate plan (protocol) before the study. ❝ ... You would need a replicate design (preferably a full replicate: RTR|TRT or RTRT|TRTR). For the required sample sizes see I tried both with CV=0.68. 42 subjects are needed for EMA, while only 27 subjects are needed for FDA. We plan to redo the BE study with a RSABE or SCABEL design. ❝ • Learn from the failed study. Did you sample frequently enough in order to “catch” Cmax in all subjects? This is a very important aspect especially for delayed release formulations... It was a BE study of an old drug's conventional tablet. We sampled frequently enough to "catch" the Cmax. ![]() Thanks a lot for the slides and references. — Best regards, Xipei China |
Helmut ★★★ ![]() ![]() Vienna, Austria, 2013-05-28 14:56 (4365 d 02:43 ago) @ wxp Posting: # 10673 Views: 13,390 |
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Hi Xipei, ❝ ❝ ... You would need a replicate design (preferably a full replicate: RTR|TRT or RTRT|TRTR). For the required sample sizes see ❝ ❝ I tried both with CV=0.68. 42 subjects are needed for EMA, while only 27 subjects are needed for FDA. We plan to redo the BE study with a RSABE or SCABEL design. Ok, but only if CFDA accepts scaling! I would rather opt for a four period full replicate design (sample sizes for ABEL 30 and for RSABE 20), if
PowerTOST yet (though I expect similar sample size like in the partial replicate) and you have to adapt FDA’s and EMA’s code (easy).If CFDA does not accept scaling and 75–133% is applicable for Cmax (your other post) you would need (T/R 0.95, CV 0.68, 80% power): design PowerTOST n treatments power — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! ![]() Helmut Schütz ![]() The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |