beman ☆ 2015-10-19 14:31 (3483 d 22:59 ago) Posting: # 15571 Views: 6,253 |
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Dear all, in the new EMA-modified release guideline is stated, that for all phases partial AUC's, Cmax and tmax should be calculated. The time point for truncationing should be based on the PK-Profile and should be specified in the study protocol. Considering following biphasic-case (biphasic tablet and biphasic PK-Profiles): peak 1 (first tmax) around 2 hours, peak 2 about 6 hours, local minimum about 4 hours. First, there are two possible cut-off time points: - 2 h (as early exposure - FDA) - 4 h (for separating the two phases as shown in the profile) In my Opinion the 4 h as cutoff time-point is the right one, because it is - in contrast to an 2 h cutt-off time point - possible to determine the first Cmax appropriately. Second, there are two different ways to define the Cmax of the phases (cutoff is 4 h, next blood sampling time point 4.5h) in accordance to the guideline : - Cmax(0-4h) and Cmax(4h - t) - Cmax(0-4h) and Cmax (4.5h - t) If the profiles are 'as expected', the results are of the two approaches are the same. But if there are some 'not expected' profiles (for example only one peak), Cmax(0-4h) and Cmax(4h - t)could be the same (4h-)value. From scientific point of view, i would prefer: Cmax(0-4h) and Cmax (4.5h - t). But in studies i would prefer the other approach. What is your opinion to these issues ? Best regard BEman Edit: Category changed. [Helmut] |
Helmut ★★★ ![]() ![]() Vienna, Austria, 2015-10-20 00:46 (3483 d 12:44 ago) @ beman Posting: # 15574 Views: 4,996 |
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Hi BEeman, ❝ in the new EMA-modified release guideline is stated, that […] The time point for truncationing should be based on the PK-Profile … Bad science, IMHO. In my studies I followed FDA’s approach, i.e., based the cut-off time point(s) on clinical grounds (example: methylphenidate 3 h fasting, 4 fed; zolpidem: 1.5 h both). For some formulations it is very difficult to distinguish “phases” in PK-profiles. Works in some subjects, but not in others. Mean profiles are completely useless. I have seen different studies with the same (!) reference where PK-profiles would lead to different cut-offs. I know one example where the EMA in a scientific advice referred to one particular published study of the reference where (I would say by chance) sort of a “trough” was seen around two hours in the arithmetic mean curves. In many other [sic] studies the trough was seen at a substantially later time or not clear at all (only sort of a “shoulder” in absorption). The sponsor had to pay a high price for this bad advice. Due to the extreme variability in the early part the sponsor had to perform a replicate design with ABEL. With a later cut-off a simple crossover would have been sufficient… Since the EMA (the final GL was adopted in Nov 2014!) didn’t publish the comments on the drafted guideline so far we will never understand which reasoning hides behind their eternal wisdom. ❝ … and should be specified in the study protocol. Sure. ❝ Considering following biphasic-case (biphasic tablet and biphasic PK-Profiles): ❝ peak 1 (first tmax) around 2 hours, peak 2 about 6 hours, local minimum about 4 hours. ❝ ❝ First, there are two possible cut-off time points: ❝ - 2 h (as early exposure - FDA) Doesn’t makes sense according to the GL (and to me as well). ❝ - 4 h (for separating the two phases as shown in the profile) ❝ In my Opinion the 4 h as cutoff time-point is the right one, because it is - in contrast to an 2 h cut-off time point - possible to determine the first Cmax appropriately. Yep, if (if!) you can distinguish between the phases. ❝ Second, there are two different ways to define the Cmax of the phases (cutoff is 4 h, next blood sampling time point 4.5h) in accordance to the guideline : ❝ - Cmax(0-4h) and Cmax(4h - t) ❝ - Cmax(0-4h) and Cmax (4.5h - t) ❝ ❝ If the profiles are 'as expected', the results are of the two approaches are the same. But if there are some 'not expected' profiles (for example only one peak), Cmax(0-4h) and Cmax(4h - t)could be the same (4h-)value. ❝ ❝ From scientific point of view, i would prefer: Cmax(0-4h) and Cmax (4.5h - t). But in studies i would prefer the other approach. I can only tell you what I use. Set the cut-off to 4 hours. Calculate pAUC0-4 and pAUC0-t. Note that I use the actual times. Say you have samples at 3.5, 4.083, and 4.5 h (the 4 h sample five minutes late). Phoenix/WinNonlin will interpolate between 3.5–4 and between 4–4.083. If you use the lin-up/log-down trapezoidal, no big deal. For an example see this post. The Cmax-values are a little bit tricky. I set up a filter based on actual time points and split the dataset. All samples with t ≤4 h go to the first part and all with t >4 h to the second. I calculate the two Cmax-values separately, rename them to sumfink meaningful and merge the results later. Note that if you have time deviations around the cut-off the number of samples / subject in each part must not be the same (say 6/10 in one subject and 7/9 in another). — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! ![]() Helmut Schütz ![]() The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |