john john ☆ Spain, 2015-10-01 19:44 (3478 d 22:39 ago) Posting: # 15513 Views: 13,495 |
|
In a sequential clinical trial conducted like a B method of Potvin, we have Cmax and AUC both not bioequivalent. Cmax has a power <80% (71.5%), and AUC>80% (84.6%). AUC 0-30min calculated by protocol is bioequivalent. In the protocol it was not specified how to proceed in this situation. Can we calculate a new n and pass to the second phase? Or we must stop the trial? Thanks Edit: Category changed. [Helmut] |
ElMaestro ★★★ Denmark, 2015-10-01 19:58 (3478 d 22:25 ago) @ john john Posting: # 15514 Views: 11,747 |
|
Hi JJ, ❝ In a sequential clinical trial conducted like a B method of Potvin, we have Cmax and AUC both not bioequivalent. Cmax has a power <80% (71.5%), and AUC>80% (84.6%). ❝ AUC 0-30min calculated by protocol is bioequivalent. ❝ In the protocol it was not specified how to proceed in this situation. ❝ ❝ Can we calculate a new n and pass to the second phase? Or we must stop the trial? I would go by the metric that displays the highest variance, which is usually Cmax. I suggest to proceed towards stage 2 on that basis. However, since this was not pre-specified it is your protocol that document may be your biggest issue now; regulators may not like whatever decision you take. — Pass or fail! ElMaestro |
Helmut ★★★ ![]() ![]() Vienna, Austria, 2015-10-01 20:13 (3478 d 22:09 ago) @ john john Posting: # 15515 Views: 11,703 |
|
Hi 2×John, ❝ In a sequential clinical trial conducted like a B method of Potvin, we have Cmax and AUC both not bioequivalent. Cmax has a power <80% (71.5%), and AUC>80% (84.6%). ❝ AUC 0-30min calculated by protocol is bioequivalent. ❝ In the protocol it was not specified how to proceed in this situation. I assume you are talking about the interim analysis after stage 1. ❝ Can we calculate a new n and pass to the second phase? Or we must stop the trial? That’s a stupid situation indeed. Following the scheme you could continue according to the results for Cmax, but would have to stop ’cause of AUC. Since for regulatory acceptance you have to show BE for both – and there is a chance for Cmax – well, cough, did I say before that this a stupid situation? What you could try: Estimate the total sample size for Cmax, assume that the GMR of AUC stays the same in the pooled analysis, and calculate the CI with the higher degrees of freedom. Does the CI shrink enough? If no, think twice whether you should proceed. Can you give us some numbers to play with? n1 (if unbalanced, nRT and nTR), GMRs, CVs. — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! ![]() Helmut Schütz ![]() The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
john john ☆ Spain, 2015-10-07 13:26 (3473 d 04:56 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 15524 Views: 11,156 |
|
Hi Sorry for the delay. I give you our numbers: n1 was 36 subjects balanced 18RT and 18TR Cmax CVintrasub (0.387) Ratio(%Ref) (81.439) Thanks for your help |
d_labes ★★★ Berlin, Germany, 2015-10-07 15:49 (3473 d 02:34 ago) @ john john Posting: # 15525 Views: 11,215 |
|
Hi John John ❝ ❝ Power at 20% (0.715) ❝ ❝ AUC0-t CVintrasub (0.324) Ratio(%Ref) (110.662) ❝ Power at 20% (0.846) Whatever your power values stand for, they are not the correct ones for the Potvin TSD, method B. You have to calculate the power at GMR=0.95, with alpha=0.0294 and CV from stage 1. Here my results: # Cmax Both are below the targeted 80%. Thus your problem described above doesn't exists. — Regards, Detlew |
john john ☆ Spain, 2015-10-07 16:54 (3473 d 01:28 ago) @ d_labes Posting: # 15526 Views: 11,216 |
|
Hi Detlew ❝ Here my results: ❝ ❝ power.TOST(alpha=0.0294, CV=0.387, n=36, theta0=0.95) ❝ [1] 0.3783821 ❝ # AUC ❝ power.TOST(alpha=0.0294, CV=0.324, n=36, theta0=0.95) ❝ [1] 0.5946074 ❝ ❝ Both are below the targeted 80%. Thus your problem described above doesn't exists. We have worked with CI of 94.12 and alpha 0.0294 Regards Edit: Full quote removed. Please delete everything from the text of the original poster which is not necessary in understanding your answer; see also this post! [Helmut] |
Helmut ★★★ ![]() ![]() Vienna, Austria, 2015-10-07 18:06 (3473 d 00:16 ago) @ john john Posting: # 15527 Views: 11,603 |
|
Hi John John, ❝ We have worked with CI of 94.12 and alpha 0.0294 Which software did you use? The phrase
Now for the nasty part. I recalculated your CVs and PEs from the CIs in order to increase precision. Your data make clear that Cmax is the crucial point (higher CV, worse PE).
In the future consider to add a futility criterion for early stopping and don’t perform TSDs if you are unsure about the GMR. Sorry, but I have to quote myself1 The entire arsenal of obtaining a reliable ‘educated guess’ (e.g. dissolution similarity for immediate release formulations of biopharmaceutics classification system class I/III drugs, established in vivo-in vitro correlation for controlled release products) should be used as well. If no reliable estimate can be derived, a—sufficiently large—pilot study should be performed. Subsequently, a TSD would still support dealing with the uncertain CV. Be aware that futility rules deteriorate power. This was shown by Fuglsang2 for an upper total sample size, but is valid for any other rule as well. It would make sense to perform own simulations to get an idea about the impact of GMRs substantially deviating from 1.
— Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! ![]() Helmut Schütz ![]() The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
ElMaestro ★★★ Denmark, 2015-10-07 23:22 (3472 d 19:00 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 15528 Views: 11,078 |
|
Hi Helmut, ❝ sampleN.TOST(alpha=0.0294, CV=CV, theta0=0.95, targetpower=0.8, design="2x2x2") Agree with every bit of your post. Though, technically I wonder if the above function call is approximative due to the lacking subtraction of a DF. Perhaps there'd be a point in updating the package to allow for curious people and nitpickers to specify if the call forms part of a two-stage approach and needs internal subtraction of a DF. This of course a technical digression and I apologise for borderline hijacking JJ's thread now. — Pass or fail! ElMaestro |
d_labes ★★★ Berlin, Germany, 2015-10-08 10:10 (3472 d 08:12 ago) @ ElMaestro Posting: # 15529 Views: 10,957 |
|
Dear ElMaestro, ❝ ... Though, technically I wonder if the above function call is approximative due to the lacking subtraction of a DF. ❝ Perhaps there'd be a point in updating the package to allow for curious people and nitpickers to specify if the call forms part of a two-stage approach and needs internal subtraction of a DF. Good point! And totally correct. But I suppose that it would be hard to find any differences in estimated sample sizes using the correct df. There is no must to use PowerTOST . Although it is termed "Gold standard" at times ![]() — Regards, Detlew |
Helmut ★★★ ![]() ![]() Vienna, Austria, 2015-10-08 17:27 (3472 d 00:55 ago) @ john john Posting: # 15531 Views: 11,021 |
|
Hi John John, ❝ Later you wrote: ❝ We have worked with CI of 94.12 and alpha 0.0294 I don’t think so; with your data:
Adding to this post:
Do you really think that it is reasonable to continue? — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! ![]() Helmut Schütz ![]() The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
john john ☆ Spain, 2015-10-23 14:04 (3457 d 04:19 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 15578 Views: 10,207 |
|
Hi Helmut We want to thank your comments and suggestions that have been a great help for the planning of our study. Thank you !! Best regards |