Helmut ★★★ ![]() ![]() Vienna, Austria, 2015-05-06 04:17 (3633 d 10:35 ago) Posting: # 14753 Views: 16,147 |
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To whom it may concern! Since Two-Stage Designs were mentioned in various guidelines (EMA, FDA,…) sponsors want to combine them with options for HVDs/HVDPs (EMA: ABEL, FDA: RSABE). I do understand that this a tempting idea. What I have heard at recent conferences gives me the impression that sponsors already performed such studies. I don’t know whether any one of them was accepted. I know of one leading to a deficiency letter. I will summarize the caveats.
[…] the equivalence limits for the scaled ABE involve the unknown intra-subject variability. As a result, the equivalence limits become random variables and are not fixed constants and the variability introduced by scaling will have an impact on the type I error rate. Therefore, the attempt to use the scaled ABE for resolution of high variable drug products will face the similar issues and challenges that the individual and population bioequivalence encountered in the 1990s […]. These issues must be satisfactorily addressed before the scaled ABE can be implemented into regulatory framework. Though attempts have been made to adjust α based on the first stage’s data5,6 regulatory acceptance is problematic, since – at least for the EMA – the adjusted level has to be pre-specified in the protocol. If one wants to pre-specify an adjusted α (GL…) one has to (empirically) find one which keeps the TIE for all possible combinations of stage 1 sample sizes and CVs. Currently I use a matrix with ~1,000 combos (n1 and CV with a step size of 2). For every grid-point one has to simulate 106 BE-studies for the TIE (slow convergence) and 105 for power. This requires 1.1×109 simulations. Contrary to 2×2×2 and parallel designs – where power can be directly calculated – for scaling we need simulations since the limits are not fixed, we have a restriction on the GMR, and an upper cap at 50% for EMA. The convergence is fine, but we still need 105 simulations within every simulated study. This leads to ~1014 (110,000,000,000,000‼) simulations overall. To give you an idea: run0 <- 1e7; run <- 1:run0 Gives on my machine: Runtimes of PowerTOST's functions: Detlew did a great job. The scaled power-functions are not by a factor of 105 slower – only ~40times. If you have a lot of time, go ahead and become famous. Furthermore, the intra-subject variabilities of test and reference must not be identical. Keep that in mind. Edit: Easier with the package microbenchmark:
On my machine (slow because I have 8 R-sessions running; CPU-load >95%):
— Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! ![]() Helmut Schütz ![]() The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
nobody nothing 2015-05-06 13:13 (3633 d 01:39 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 14754 Views: 12,689 |
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Who planned the one with the deficiency letter? ![]() ...just asking Οὐδείς — Kindest regards, nobody |
Helmut ★★★ ![]() ![]() Vienna, Austria, 2015-05-06 13:55 (3633 d 00:56 ago) @ nobody Posting: # 14755 Views: 12,703 |
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Γειά σου Οδυσσέα! ❝ Who planned the one with the deficiency letter? ![]() Last week during a coffee break at the EGA/EMA-workshop I prevented yet another one. The “design” was suggested by a ![]() ![]() — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! ![]() Helmut Schütz ![]() The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
nobody nothing 2015-05-06 14:26 (3633 d 00:25 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 14757 Views: 12,595 |
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...maybe this team :o) ...but maybe someone solved alpha dilemma... — Kindest regards, nobody |
ElMaestro ★★★ Denmark, 2015-05-06 14:31 (3633 d 00:20 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 14758 Views: 12,611 |
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Hi Helmut, this was a great post, and really a necessary one. I hope it will make a difference. It is the eternal opportunistic battle a. "Noone has proven it doesn't work so we'll try it." vs. b. "So-And-So et al. showed that it works so we'll try it." [and absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, perhaps??] I have heard that there is going to be a symposium in Prague in two weeks where one of the true authorities on the issue of two-stage approaches (I am talking about a certain consultant from Vienna who also has a nasty habit of torturing statistical software) is a panelist; perhaps this guy will use the opportunity to express his such views. I certainly hope so as the message conveyed here really deserves to be wider known and could spare companies for much trouble. — Pass or fail! ElMaestro |
Helmut ★★★ ![]() ![]() Vienna, Austria, 2015-05-06 15:49 (3632 d 23:02 ago) @ ElMaestro Posting: # 14763 Views: 12,686 |
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Hi ElMaestro, ❝ this was a great post, and really a necessary one. THX. ❝ a. "Noone has proven it doesn't work so we'll try it." Courageous (or just stupid?) Primary concern in bioequivalence assessment is to limit the risk of erroneously accepting bioequivalence, i.e., maintain the patient’s risk (α) at ≤0.05.1,2 Only statistical procedures, which do not exceed the nominal risk of 5%, can be accepted.3,4 ❝ I have heard that there is going to be a symposium in Prague in two weeks where one of the true authorities on the issue of two-stage approaches (I am talking about a certain consultant from Vienna who also has a nasty habit of torturing statistical software) is a panelist… I have heard that another eminent consultant from Haderslev (having the habit of coding nasty software) will be a panelist as well.
— Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! ![]() Helmut Schütz ![]() The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
d_labes ★★★ Berlin, Germany, 2015-05-08 22:47 (3630 d 16:05 ago) (edited on 2015-05-09 17:09) @ Helmut Posting: # 14778 Views: 12,438 |
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Dear Helmut, this is a very eminent important post ![]() But I believe those to whom it really concerns unfortunately will not read it or are not able to read or duno understand its message ![]() ❝ Contrary to 2×2×2 and parallel designs – where power can be directly calculated – for scaling we need simulations since the limits are not fixed, we have a restriction on the GMR, and an upper cap at 50% for EMA. The convergence is fine, but we still need 105 simulations within every simulated study. This leads to ~1014 (110,000,000,000,000‼) simulations overall. This is an optimistic (sic!) estimation since you forgot the sims necessary for the sample size estimation step of 2 ... 8 iterations with 105 simulations each, since the start values of sample size search are naturally not as good as for the case of the classical sample size estimation. So let us estimate more pessimistically (but may be too optimistically) an additional factor of 4 (one for the power monitoring step + 3 for the sample size estimation) within each of the simulations of your preferred grid of CV and n1. 3.2x 1013 secs = 533.333.333.333 min = 8.888.888.889 h = 370.370.370 days = 1.014.713 years! calculated with the newest R version 3.2.0 (hope I got all the conversions using the thousands sparator "." correct, prove me wrong) Oh what a weired calculation. Seems yesterday evening there was one beer too much ![]() Try it once more, hope now I got it right: 1.1×109 sims each with 4x80 msecs for the power calculations = 5,866,667 min = 97,777.78 h = 4,074.074 days = 11.16185 years Even if someone came out with a much more clever algo having a boost of 1E3 (thousand) faster than mine in PowerTOST (which I of course can't believe that it is possible to beat me to such an amount ![]() Just to make your message crystal clear! If this all is necessary to be really done for a certain regulatory body (which one remains my secret ![]() — Regards, Detlew |
Helmut ★★★ ![]() ![]() Vienna, Austria, 2015-05-10 03:11 (3629 d 11:41 ago) @ d_labes Posting: # 14779 Views: 12,377 |
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Dear Detlew, ❝ this is a very eminent important post THX. Was mainly a kind of self-defense. If such an idea pops up in the future, I would just link to this post. ❝ ❝ […] we still need 105 simulations within every simulated study. This leads to ~1014 (110,000,000,000,000‼) simulations overall. ❝ ❝ This is an optimistic (sic!) estimation […] ❝ ❝ So let us estimate more pessimistically (but may be too optimistically) an additional factor of 4 (one for the power monitoring step + 3 for the sample size estimation) within each of the simulations […] At least for “Type 1” designs, you need only one step – as you ingeniously have implemented it in Power2Stage . An estimated total sample size ≤ n1 implies power ≥ target. ![]() ❝ Just to make your message crystal clear! Yep. Whether it takes five or fifty years makes no difference in practice. It simply takes too long. ❝ If this all is necessary to be really done for a certain regulatory body (which one remains my secret I think that it is justified if regulators ask for demonstration that the TIE is maintained. That’s their job. Sponsors should learn that Two-Stage Design are not the jack of all trades device ( <span lang="de"> „eierlegende Wollmilchsau” </span> ) as they inadvertently believe. TSDs are fine in ABE to deal with an uncertain CV. This is not necessary if we apply scaling – which inherently takes care of higher than expected variability. If a study is powered for ABE, everything should be OK (well, cough, inflation in ABEL/RSABE – another story).Like in ABE the nasty thing is the ratio… — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! ![]() Helmut Schütz ![]() The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |