martin
★★  

Austria,
2010-09-29 21:13
(5738 d 06:20 ago)

Posting: # 5959
Views: 8,634
 

 Statistical analysis of Cmax values < LOQ [General Sta­tis­tics]

dear all!

I do have a question regarding handling of Cmax values <LOQ for statistical analyses.

consider the following situation:
- parallel group design with k study arms
- all concentrations over time are <LOQ for ca. 40% of subjects (no Cmax available)

what do you suggest for statistical comparison of Cmax values between study arms?
- set Cmax at LOQ for these subjects
- no statistical evaluation
- statistical evaluation only for the subset of subjects with Cmax > LOQ which may bias results
- ...

any suggestions/recommendations are highly appreciated !

best regards

martin
Helmut
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Vienna, Austria,
2010-09-29 21:49
(5738 d 05:44 ago)

@ martin
Posting: # 5960
Views: 7,842
 

 Statistical analysis of Cmax values < LOQ

Hi Martin!

❝ consider the following situation:

❝ - parallel group design with k study arms

❝ - all concentrations over time are <LOQ for ca. 40% of subjects (no

  Cmax available)


Oops!

❝ what do you suggest for statistical comparison of Cmax values

❝ between study arms?

❝ - set Cmax at LOQ for these subjects

❝ - no statistical evaluation

❝ - statistical evaluation only for the subset of subjects with

  Cmax > LOQ which may bias results

❝ - ...


To get into the right mood read this goody again. :cool:
Did you anticipate something like this in the SAP? If not, it's not too late - but stop now and take a deep breath. It's important not to play around with the data until you have developed a statistical contingency plan (ideally an amended SAP). Now let's see:
  1. Massive bias of the estimates, I would say - even if these 40 % <LOQ are evenly spread across groups. On the other hand, if (and only if) these values are evenly distributed, the absolute mean values of Cmax of the treatments will have a positive bias - the ratio between groups should not be hit (that much). Suboptimal, but possible. Problematic is also the influence on the variance (should be smaller, right?).
    Once I did something similar in a safety study, where we expected the majority of subjects to show values <LOQ. Since this was a one-sided test situation, replacing these values with LOQ was conservative and preserved the patient's risk better than any other method.
  2. Probably the best, but your boss will not like that.
    Modifying Ludwig Wittgenstein: »Wovon man nicht rechnen kann, darüber muss man schweigen.«*
  3. This is essentially the opposite of #1.
I have no solution; if you have a little time, fire up a simulation. And don't forget to generate one dataset with Cmax=LOQ/2. Black magic, but who knows?


* Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus (1921), Section 7: »Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen.« (Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.)

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ElMaestro
★★★

Denmark,
2010-09-30 01:20
(5738 d 02:13 ago)

@ martin
Posting: # 5963
Views: 7,605
 

 Statistical analysis of Cmax values < LOQ

Dear Martin,

❝ - all concentrations over time are <LOQ for ca. 40% of subjects (no

  Cmax available)


It is not clear what the purpose of the trial is but I am willing to bet a monthly salary on the fact that the study report when reviewed by an assessor will not do much for you, whatever you do.

The 40% being <LOQ is extremely unexpected unless everybody in your team had had a stroke the day the trial was planned (which I think is unlikely, but feel free to comment).
For this reason, send out an auditor; do a for-cause audit to look at the trial itself and the bioanalysis. Make sure the auditor comes home to give you a really qualified idea of whether the observed problem is a real problem. I highly recommend you to use an auditor that looks for more than just missing signatures or misspelling on training records.

Pass or fail!
ElMaestro
Ohlbe
★★★

France,
2010-09-30 11:14
(5737 d 16:19 ago)

@ ElMaestro
Posting: # 5964
Views: 7,530
 

 Statistical analysis of Cmax values < LOQ

Dear El Maestro,

❝ The 40% being <LOQ is extremely unexpected unless everybody in your team had had a stroke the day the trial was planned


Couldn't it happen in a first-in-man with ascending doses, in the lowest dose group ?

❝ I highly recommend you to use an auditor that looks for more than just missing signatures or misspelling on training records.


:-D

Regards
Ohlbe

Regards
Ohlbe
Helmut
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Vienna, Austria,
2010-09-30 15:39
(5737 d 11:54 ago)

@ Ohlbe
Posting: # 5966
Views: 7,516
 

 Statistical analysis of Cmax values < LOQ

Dear Ohlbe and all!

❝ ❝ The 40% being <LOQ is extremely unexpected unless everybody in your

❝ ❝ team had had a stroke the day the trial was planned


❝ Couldn't it happen in a first-in-man with ascending doses, in the lowest

❝ dose group ?


We will wait for Martin returning, but I would bet another month's salary that his 'subjects' did not belong to the species Homo sapiens.

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martin
★★  

Austria,
2010-09-30 23:53
(5737 d 03:40 ago)

@ Helmut
Posting: # 5968
Views: 7,594
 

 TK study

dear all!

thank you very much for your valuable comments. HS won the bet; its a toxicokinetic (TK) study which characterize ADME/exposure in toxicity species with doses at toxicological levels.

Toxicokinetics can be regarded as an expansion of PK as it is rather unrealistic assuming similar PK processes with toxicological doses than with therapeutic doses as the ability of the body to cope with a compound is extended to the limit (Welling, 1995)

best regards

martin

Welling PG (1995). Difference between Pharmacokinetics and Toxicokinetics. Toxicol Pathol 23(2):143-147.
d_labes
★★★

Berlin, Germany,
2010-10-01 13:49
(5736 d 13:44 ago)

@ martin
Posting: # 5969
Views: 7,543
 

 Censored or truncated

Dear Martin!

I must controvert Helmut's modification of Wittgenstein. There are methods out there in the statistical universe by which we can "rechnen" with data having values known only to the extent of being lower than a certain value (or higher than a certain value or known only in an interval).
I would suggest you to look for statistical methods for censored / truncated data.

Unfortunately I have no personal experience / knowledge with such methods. Thus I can't direct you to a ready to use solution.

But here is a point of view with literature from the field of environment sciences.

D. Helsel
Much Ado About Next to Nothing:
Incorporating Nondetects in Science

The Annals of Occupational Hygiene

Dennis Helsel has also written a book:
"Nondetects And Data Analysis: Statistics for Censored Environmental Data"
Wiley 2004
ISBN: 978-0-471-67173-2

The methods described are implemented in the R package NADA. See http://www.practicalstats.com/nada/downloads_files/NADAforR_Examples.pdf for examples.

:google:ing for "non-detects statistics censored data" will give you much more interesting material. Among them this one showing that substitution of LOQ is not the best idea.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Detlew
ElMaestro
★★★

Denmark,
2010-10-01 19:53
(5736 d 07:41 ago)

@ Ohlbe
Posting: # 5976
Views: 7,431
 

 Statistical analysis of Cmax values < LOQ

Dear Ohlbe,

❝ Couldn't it happen in a first-in-man with ascending doses, in the lowest dose group ?


Yes, that sounds just about right and intuitive.
Would it perhaps even be possible to say it should only happen under those circumstances?
Yeah ok, at the time I am posting this we know it is an animal TK study, but disregarding this fact, I cannot think of any other situation where it could reasonably be expected to occur.

Pass or fail!
ElMaestro
Dr_Dan
★★  

Germany,
2010-09-30 11:52
(5737 d 15:41 ago)

@ ElMaestro
Posting: # 5965
Views: 7,603
 

 Statistical analysis of Cmax values < LOQ

Dear all
I totally agree with ElMaestro

❝ It is not clear what the purpose of the trial is but I am willing to bet a monthly salary on the fact that the study report when reviewed by an assessor will not do much for you, whatever you do.


According to guideline CPMP/QWP/EWP/1401/98 Rev. 1 "The lower limit of quantitation should be 1/20 of Cmax or lower". If you can not detect any plasma levels in 40% of your subjects the you will have on the one hand a drug with a high inter-subject variability and on the other hand an analytical method which is not sensitive enough to cover the whole range of plasma concentrations. This is the most critical point and you will not convince any assessor with a statistical evaluation when your analytical method is not suitable except you can show that you had 40% of non-compliers.
Kind regards
Dan

Kind regards and have a nice day
Dr_Dan
ElMaestro
★★★

Denmark,
2010-10-01 20:13
(5736 d 07:20 ago)

@ martin
Posting: # 5977
Views: 7,429
 

 Statistical analysis of Cmax values < LOQ

Dear Martin,

I was thinking a little further about this. OK, admittedly, my moments of thinkings are typically the moments when things go seriously pear-shaped for me.
Anyways, how about this: do nothing out of the ordinary.

You have a system for your chromatography, recording of data, getting data into your spreadsheet, getting the data analysed and getting the results printed, saved, documented. Each of these steps is (should be) an objective process. In the first steps your output is not of the 71.93-kind but of the "<LOQ"-kind (or NA or BLQ or DOA or whateever) for some of the data.
Unless you have pre-specified otherwise, I think it you should at least consider inputting exactly what comes out of the first steps and into the next steps. I know this is brutal and perhaps brainless, all depending on your coding, but it might be per protocol. All validated software has default methods to handle missing or unexpected inputs. You might not get anything meaningful out of it, but you have handled it objectively as prescribed and cannot be nailed for attempts to prune the data prior to analysis.
As someone once said: Garbage in, garbage out.

After you obtain garbage out, I think you have pretty free hands to apply other types of common sense to your problem. I could be wrong, but I think I would do this with a new protocol/sap rather than trying to modify the old one(s).

Let it be known, I am not a fan of garbage in but it is darn hard to plan against all types of eventualities.

Pass or fail!
ElMaestro
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