joy_fm ☆ Indonesia, 2015-08-10 10:50 (3562 d 05:48 ago) Posting: # 15203 Views: 11,767 |
|
Dear all, how to justify acceptable deviation of blood sampling time in BE studies ? Thank you joy_fm |
Helmut ★★★ ![]() ![]() Vienna, Austria, 2015-08-11 02:44 (3561 d 13:54 ago) @ joy_fm Posting: # 15217 Views: 10,055 |
|
Hi Joy, ❝ how to justify acceptable deviation of blood sampling time in BE studies ? I’m not sure what you mean by justification here. There are many possible reasons which could justify a deviation: Technical problems (blocked venflow, difficulties in repeated venipuncure), logistics (subject arrives late for ambulatory blood draw), whatsoever. Or do you mean the “magic” time allowance window (TAW)? Most CROs state in the protocol & CRF that sampling within the TAW must not be commented in the CRF. TAWs depend on the sampling schedule (increasingly wide). Example according to Papst* with an “irrelevant” deviation of 5% below:
∆1 is the difference between sampling time points. ∆2 is the smallest of two neighbouring ∆1s. However, rarely I see only positive TAWs in CRFs. Most CROs state ±sumfink. I don’t get it & concur with Papst, who wrote: Any sampling occuring too early is a deviation that should be reported even if pharmacokinetically irrelevant, since there are only a few plausible reasons why an activity should have been performed earlier than planned.
— Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! ![]() Helmut Schütz ![]() The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
joy_fm ☆ Indonesia, 2015-08-11 06:07 (3561 d 10:31 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 15220 Views: 9,801 |
|
Hi Helmut, thank you for your reply. We have removed “magic” time allowance window (TAW) from our protocol. So every blood sampling deviation, will be reported in CRF and statistical analysis. But one of our customer, ask us, to put TAW in our protocol. Since we can't justify the deviation, we can't accept the request. What I know from training, TAW will be specific for any kind of drug molecules, it can't 5%, more or less, depend on the impact to pharmacokinetic analysis. But we don't how to decide the percentage of blood sampling deviation which can't make an effect to pharmacokintetic analysis. Would you mind to share how to decide the percentage of blood sampling which can't categorize as deviation, so TAW won't be "magic" again, but scientifically sound. Thank you joy_fm |
Helmut ★★★ ![]() ![]() Vienna, Austria, 2015-08-11 15:09 (3561 d 01:29 ago) @ joy_fm Posting: # 15227 Views: 9,994 |
|
Hi Joy, ❝ We have removed “magic” time allowance window (TAW) from our protocol. So every blood sampling deviation, will be reported in CRF and statistical analysis. I think we disagree in terminology. Samples with deviations within the TAW don’t have to be commented in the CRF. However, the actual time point will always be recorded and used in PK. If you mandate to comment every deviation (even if considered irrelevant) you put stress on the clinical staff. They should concentrate on handling samples – not on prose. ❝ But one of our customer, ask us, to put TAW in our protocol. Since we can't justify the deviation, we can't accept the request. I don’t understand. Can you elaborate? ❝ What I know from training, TAW will be specific for any kind of drug molecules, it can't 5%, more or less, depend on the impact to pharmacokinetic analysis. Maybe, maybe not. I’m not aware of any paper exploring it. Papst wrote: […] only those time deviations will be of pharmacokinetic relevance in which the time interval between the preceding and the affected sample or the interval between the affected and the following sample was prolonged or shortened by, for example, more than 5%. In practice it has been proven acceptable to consider only those time deviations out of this specified range when calculating the AUC. ❝ But we don't how to decide the percentage of blood sampling deviation which can't make an effect to pharmacokintetic analysis. Use the actual times. ❝ Would you mind to share how to decide the percentage of blood sampling which can't categorize as deviation, so TAW won't be "magic" again, but scientifically sound. I would keep it at 5% (yes, arbitrarily!). The idea to comment on larger deviations is sumfink like this: “Hhm, this concentration looks really weird. It is much lower than the ones before and after. Let’s have a look at the CRF. Ah, the venflow was blocked and it took the study nurse 10 minutes to rinse it with Ringer’s solution. Maybe she didn’t discard the first milliliters and the sample was diluted? I will go downstairs and ask her.” BTW, things like this are pretty common. Train the staff not to reach for the stars. If a venflow cannot be opened quickly (say within two minutes), opt for venipuncure at this timepoint (make sure to mention it in the ICF). They can deal with the blockage later on.— Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! ![]() Helmut Schütz ![]() The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
joy_fm ☆ Indonesia, 2015-08-13 21:00 (3558 d 19:38 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 15259 Views: 9,629 |
|
Hi Helmut, thank you for the explanation. I will try to find another literature related to this topic. Best regards joy_fm |
Ohlbe ★★★ France, 2015-08-17 19:51 (3554 d 20:47 ago) @ joy_fm Posting: # 15286 Views: 9,460 |
|
Dear Joy, What I often see in protocols is that any time deviation of more than a certain value will be considered as a protocol deviation and will be reported as such in the study report. But all time deviations are reported and are considered in the PK analysis. I have seen strange interpretations of such protocol provisions: allowed deviation ± 2 min, actual deviation + 5 min, reported deviation + 3 min... I agree with Helmut: there is no reason why any sample should be collected early. Meaning that any sample collected early should be considered as a protocol deviation. After all, if a subject arrives late for an ambulatory sample there is little you can do; but if he arrives early you can ask him to wait. He was informed of the protocol constraints and agreed to them when signing the consent form. — Regards Ohlbe |