AngusMcLean ★★ USA, 2014-02-24 01:07 (4075 d 16:13 ago) Posting: # 12474 Views: 10,900 |
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I continue to explore Phoenix WinNonlin and Bioequivalence output. I have studied two way bioequivalence in textbooks such as Pharmaceutical Statistics by Sanford Bolton. The two way BE calculations are well explained in that book. As far as programs are concerned I like the output from Equivtest best, but EquivTest doe not do three-way crossover studies. I looked at an old example I have here of a 3 way BE study (6 sequences, 3 periods and 3 treatments, balanced Williams design) run in Phoenix WinNonlin. I am puzzled by the "sequential" tab of the program, since there is a term there that I am not familiar with. It is an inferential test of "int" without the inverted commas. Please access link below http://screencast.com/t/9dPhDKPVPZ As you can see the F test is very high and the p test is,as you may well imagine, is very small. In this program (Phoenix) the two way BE analysis corresponding output does not give this "int" parameter. I am trying to find out what it means...................int intercept? and how to arrive at an understanding of the nature of this parameter and the role it plays. I have never seen it in a two way BE output. Angus Edit: Category changed. [Helmut] |
Helmut ★★★ ![]() ![]() Vienna, Austria, 2014-02-24 01:51 (4075 d 15:29 ago) @ AngusMcLean Posting: # 12475 Views: 8,937 |
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Hi Angus, ❝ I am puzzled by the "sequential" tab of the program, since there is a term there that I am not familiar with. It is an inferential test of "int" without the inverted commas. ❝ I am trying to find out what it means...................int intercept? Yes. See the “User’s Guide p321 (p351 of the PDF). ❝ I have never seen it in a two way BE output. No? Below Clayton/Leslie’s data (2×2) which can be found in Chow/Liu’s textbook and PHX’ examples. ![]() See also the “Getting Started Guide” p52 (p58 of the PDF) for a 2×4 replicate study. — Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! ![]() Helmut Schütz ![]() The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
AngusMcLean ★★ USA, 2014-02-24 16:08 (4075 d 01:12 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 12478 Views: 8,845 |
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Hello Helmut: Thank you I will study the references given. I need to understand the parameters better. I did repeat an example of a 2 x 2 BE study and I do now see the "int" in the sequence tab as you show. Also for this 2 x 2 study the sequential sum of squares data is given, but for the 3 way cross-over study the sequential sum of squares is not given by Phoenix. I wonder why they did that. I would have thought this information should be provided for both 2 and 3 way examples. Angus |
Helmut ★★★ ![]() ![]() Vienna, Austria, 2014-02-24 16:58 (4075 d 00:23 ago) @ AngusMcLean Posting: # 12479 Views: 8,809 |
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Hi Angus! ❝ […] Also for this 2 x 2 study the sequential sum of squares data is given, but for the 3 way cross-over study the sequential sum of squares is not given by Phoenix. ❝ I wonder why they did that. Duno. Ask Pharsight. It is possible to reconstruct this information but it requires a really lengthy workflow, which is error-prone. I will not post it. ❝ I would have thought this information should be provided for both 2 and 3 way examples. Agree. If I remember it correctly in the Nov 2013 1.4 Pre-release the tables were available. I cannot check it yet because I de-installed it and failed to get the latest beta of Feb 19th running.* But there is hope.
— Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! ![]() Helmut Schütz ![]() The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
AngusMcLean ★★ USA, 2014-02-24 17:56 (4074 d 23:24 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 12480 Views: 8,851 |
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Helmut: I will ask them; it really should be there. I looked up your reference to intercept (see below in the users guide) For non-replicated crossover designs, the default model is as follows. Fixed effects model is: ❝ Dependent variable = Intercept + Sequence + Formulation + Period I know that the dependent variable say AUC and we have a regression relationship (or it a multiple regression) relating it to the Sequence, Formulation and period. Is this the calculation of the AUC of one individual in a given sequence, given period and treated with a given formulation? How is it that the Sequence, Formulation and period are obtained in terms of AUC. Does this relate to matrix algebra? In general and in simple terms how should we think of that equation. Angus |
ElMaestro ★★★ Denmark, 2014-02-24 18:26 (4074 d 22:54 ago) @ AngusMcLean Posting: # 12481 Views: 8,850 |
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Hi ANgus, ❝ How is it that the Sequence, Formulation and period are obtained in terms of AUC. Does this relate to matrix algebra? In general and in simple terms how should we think of that equation. Look at it this way: Your model is: ln(AUC) = int + Subject + Sequence + Period + Treatment + error and that means: "Each observed log(AUC) is the sum of a constant called the intercept plus a constant for the subject plus a constant for the Sequence assigned to that subject plus a constant for the Period from which we got this observation plus a constant for the Treatment the Subject received plus some sort of error (residual)." If you're telling me that this is an awful lot of constants then you are right. Of course some of these constants are constrained (=loss of df's) so our headache is not excruciating but it's still plenty bewildering. Before the fit we only have our observations but not the errors or residuals. The residuals themselves depend, of course, on the constants. When we fit the model, we fiddle and tweak with all those constants until we have a situation where the sum of the squared residuals are at a minimum, because that's associated with the maximum likelihood. All this can be expressed beautifully and simple by means of matrix algebra. You don't need to do it, but you can if you wish and to some this is very pleasing. Just like when your wife hints something about you doing the dishes after she has cooked a good dinner for you. You don't have to do it, but your life may be considerably less torturous if you do it. [Note: The above applies when subject is modeled as a fixed effect. If you fit it as random then things get a little more complicated since minimisation of sums of squares doesn't result in maximum likelihood.] — Pass or fail! ElMaestro |
AngusMcLean ★★ USA, 2014-02-24 19:02 (4074 d 22:18 ago) @ ElMaestro Posting: # 12483 Views: 8,770 |
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ELmaestro: Thank you for your comments and encouragement. It seems that we have multiple linear regression used in conjunction with matrix alegebra....yes? Would that be the case? Angus |
ElMaestro ★★★ Denmark, 2014-02-24 19:17 (4074 d 22:04 ago) @ AngusMcLean Posting: # 12484 Views: 8,772 |
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Hi Angus, ❝ ELmaestro: Thank you for your comments and encouragement. It seems that we have multiple linear regression used in conjunction with matrix alegebra....yes? ❝ ❝ Would that be the case? Indeed. In matrix terms we use y=Xb+e y is the vector of log-transformed metrics (logged observations). X is the design matrix. b is the effect vector (a vector of all the constants mentioned above with the redundant ones removed) e is a vector of error. Accordingly, max. likelihood is when ete is minimised which gives us a useful b -vector.— Pass or fail! ElMaestro |
AngusMcLean ★★ USA, 2014-02-24 20:56 (4074 d 20:25 ago) @ ElMaestro Posting: # 12485 Views: 8,794 |
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ELMaestro: please can you recommend an introductory book in this field so that I can learn it properly and then apply it. I have never studied matrix algebra or multiple linear regression. Angus |
ElMaestro ★★★ Denmark, 2014-02-25 00:58 (4074 d 16:22 ago) @ AngusMcLean Posting: # 12486 Views: 8,745 |
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Hi Angus, ❝ ELMaestro: please can you recommend an introductory book in this field so that I can learn it properly and then apply it. I have never studied matrix algebra or multiple linear regression. There are tons of books and I never understood much when I read them. A few things snapped into place when I realised that I would never understand anything until I grasped the design matrix. It turned out that it was dead simple. If you wish I can write a "Normal linear model 101" thread to get you started. But writing it might take a little time. — Pass or fail! ElMaestro |
AngusMcLean ★★ USA, 2014-02-25 02:25 (4074 d 14:55 ago) @ ElMaestro Posting: # 12487 Views: 8,774 |
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I am a chemist originally: there are thousands of books on chemistry. Unfortunately good ones in any one aspect of chemistry are hard to find. So I would not know where to begin to look for design matrix 101. Angus |