What if... [General Statistics]
Dear Helmut, dear all,
Just as a matter of curiosity (and I know there are other difficulties with 4-period trials, such as a higher risk of drop-out). To avoid the problem of assumptions regarding period effects, discussed by D.Labes and Helmut, what would you think of a 4-period trial with the following sequences:
The idea would then be to analyse the data as suggested by Helmut (as two usual 2x2 trials, one for fasted, one for fed) as if there were two groups of subjects in the trial (just like in a large trial when the subjects have to be split due to limited capacities of the facilities), and then to do the "paired design (with high power, but avoiding confounding issues)", without the problem of the sequence effect.
Practically there would certainly be precautions to be taken, such as housing separately the fed and fasting subjects, to avoid confusions (and I wouldn't like to be fasting, and to smell the eggs and bacon of the other guys
), but would it make any sense on a statistical point of view, or is my idea complete nonsense ?
Regards
Ohlbe
❝ In such a design treatments in periods 1 and 2 can be compared in fasted state and in periods 3 and 4 in fed state as a conventional cross-over.
❝ Additionally Tfed
vs. Tfasted
and Rfed
vs. Rfasted
can be evaluated as a paired design (with high power, but avoiding confounding issues).
Just as a matter of curiosity (and I know there are other difficulties with 4-period trials, such as a higher risk of drop-out). To avoid the problem of assumptions regarding period effects, discussed by D.Labes and Helmut, what would you think of a 4-period trial with the following sequences:
- Tfasted Rfasted Tfed Rfed
- Rfasted Tfasted Rfed Tfed
- Tfed Rfed Tfasted Rfasted
- Rfed Tfed Rfasted Tfasted
The idea would then be to analyse the data as suggested by Helmut (as two usual 2x2 trials, one for fasted, one for fed) as if there were two groups of subjects in the trial (just like in a large trial when the subjects have to be split due to limited capacities of the facilities), and then to do the "paired design (with high power, but avoiding confounding issues)", without the problem of the sequence effect.
Practically there would certainly be precautions to be taken, such as housing separately the fed and fasting subjects, to avoid confusions (and I wouldn't like to be fasting, and to smell the eggs and bacon of the other guys

Regards
Ohlbe
—
Regards
Ohlbe
Regards
Ohlbe
Complete thread:
- 4-period BE study fed/fasting: statistical issues Amandine 2009-06-04 12:31 [General Statistics]
- Confounded effects; common variance Helmut 2009-06-04 12:55
- Neglecting period effects? d_labes 2009-06-10 10:10
- Assumptions... Helmut 2009-06-23 14:38
- What if...Ohlbe 2010-03-10 14:27
- What if... Dr_Dan 2010-03-11 15:50
- What if… Helmut 2010-03-11 16:39
- What if… Dr_Dan 2010-03-12 08:49
- Need-to-know / nice-to-know Helmut 2010-03-12 11:35
- many ANOVA but only one trial boonchai_l 2010-05-24 11:53
- many ANOVA but only one trial GSTATS 2010-06-08 21:52
- many ANOVA but only one trial boonchai_l 2010-05-24 11:53
- Need-to-know / nice-to-know Helmut 2010-03-12 11:35
- What if… Dr_Dan 2010-03-12 08:49
- What if… Helmut 2010-03-11 16:39
- What if... Dr_Dan 2010-03-11 15:50
- Neglecting period effects? d_labes 2009-06-10 10:10
- Confounded effects; common variance Helmut 2009-06-04 12:55