Wetware 🧠 vs. software 🤖 [NCA / SHAM]
❝ ❝ — Our brain is an excellent pattern recognition machine.
❝ ... and this widely recognised fact also explains why regulators over the years have been so happy to see manual integration in chromatography. 
… though they realized that sometimes it still is necessary (ICH M10 Section 3.3.6). Yep, has to be documented.
There is an invited comment about the comparison of r2 and visual inspection (reference #4 of the post above). Since it is behind a paywall, important parts:
The implementation of the algorithm in WinNonlin (which is essentially unchanged today) is an aid to provide an initial estimate for the user who can then manually adjust the terminal slope calculation for each individual as appropriate. It was realized at the time of the original development that the adjusted r2 approach might not always select the same time points that a user would select by visual inspection, which is precisely why an interactive graphical tool was included with WinNonlin. In this sense, the adjusted r2 algorithm was simply an aid to increase efficiency of the analysis of pharmacokinetic data. Over almost 30 years, the adjusted r2 algorithm as implemented has been unchanged, and we are not aware of any alternative algorithms that would significantly improve the accuracy or speed of the estimation method. However, we agree with the author that for some profiles the adjusted r2 algorithm appears to have some bias, and we would welcome suggestions on either how to identify profiles the adjusted r2 algorithm may not perform well on, improve the adjusted r2 algorithm to decrease the bias, or propose an alternative algorithm that is more accurate and equally as efficient.
[…]
An important operational point to note is that the time required for analysis is an important consideration in use of any algorithm. The r2 and adjusted r2 algorithms take a fraction of a second to implement for a single pharmacokinetic profile. The time required to implement the visual inspection algorithm proposed by the author is not stated; however, one can assume that it might be approximately 60 seconds for a single pharmacokinetic profile. This suggests that the visual inspection algorithm is at least 60-fold less efficient than either the r2 or adjusted r2 algorithms. Even if one accepts the author’s assertion that the visual inspection algorithm has less bias across all pharmacokinetic data analysts, the enormous loss of efficiency for a small (<10%) improvement in bias would argue that the visual inspection algorithm is not an improvement over either the r2 or adjusted r2 algorithms.
IMHO, this line of argument is convoluted. r2 was developed as a tool to get initial estimates. Since it is known to be imperfect, the user can (and should according to WinNonlin’s User’s Guide) make adjustments. So far, so good. This is exactly what I do for ages as well.
But then the authors speak of ’efficiency’ (speed?). Oh dear, 60 seconds per profile? 🧠💤
Further, with my 30+ years of experience with the software I can say that the algo works remarkably well for IR and DR formulations. Sometimes I have to exclude an increasing last concentration. Remember that at the LLOQ A&P can be 20%. Therefore, an apparent increase might be pure chance. However, not excluding it, would bias λz with all of its ugly consequence (larger extrapolated AUC).
For formulations with flat profiles (CR, patches, etc) the algo fails quite often. The authors prefer not to talk about that.
- Weiner D, Teuscher NS. Comments on D.A. Noe’s papers on noncompartmental pharmacokinetic analysis: Performance characteristics of the adjusted r2 algorithm for determining the start of the terminal disposition phase and comparison with a simple r2 algorithm and a visual inspection method https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/pst.1979 and Criteria for reporting noncompartmental estimates of half-life and area under the curve extrapolated to infinity https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/pst.1978. Pharm Stat. 2020; 19: 113–4. doi:10.1002/pst.1999.
Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна!
![[image]](https://static.bebac.at/pics/Blue_and_yellow_ribbon_UA.png)
Helmut Schütz
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The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮
Science Quotes
Complete thread:
- Visual inspection of fits (estimation of λ-z) Helmut 2025-11-15 12:36 [NCA / SHAM]
- Visual inspection of fits (estimation of λ-z) ElMaestro 2025-11-15 19:10
- Wetware 🧠 vs. software 🤖Helmut 2025-11-16 09:21
- Manual integrations Ohlbe 2025-11-17 08:32
- Manual int ElMaestro 2025-11-17 09:35
- Visual inspection of fits (estimation of λ-z) ElMaestro 2025-11-15 19:10
