≡ [Study Assessment]
Hi Datacollector,
looks familiar.
Since we are in the same boat and out of curiosity: p-values of the sequence effect were given by the CRO and also by the BfArM with 0.0077 (AUC) and 0.0252 (Cmax).
Recalculated in Phoenix WinNonlin 8.1 and R 3.6.1 (function
Extending what I wrote at the end of this post (not for you – as an obvious initiate – but the archive). Let’s assume that the two groups randomized to sequences TR and RT differ (by chance) in their body weights. Might happen cause we don’t stratify in a crossover for anything. Both T and R have a relative BA of 1. Hence, T/R should be 100%. I assumed that the response with a body weight of 70 would be exactly 1. Due to different volumes of distribution the response will be higher in the group with low BW and vice versa. Two cases (the responses are the means of groups):
One might be tempted to be prepared for the worst (i.e., bizarre deficiency letters) and aim at a stratified randomization keeping body weights as close as possible. But where will it end? Having a single slow metabolizer in one group and none in the other could already be the killer. Doesn’t make any sense.
looks familiar.

Since we are in the same boat and out of curiosity: p-values of the sequence effect were given by the CRO and also by the BfArM with 0.0077 (AUC) and 0.0252 (Cmax).
Recalculated in Phoenix WinNonlin 8.1 and R 3.6.1 (function
lm()
of stats
):PK metric p (period) p (sequence)
AUC 0.0321 2.42·10–5
Cmax 0.0358 2.36·10–5
Extending what I wrote at the end of this post (not for you – as an obvious initiate – but the archive). Let’s assume that the two groups randomized to sequences TR and RT differ (by chance) in their body weights. Might happen cause we don’t stratify in a crossover for anything. Both T and R have a relative BA of 1. Hence, T/R should be 100%. I assumed that the response with a body weight of 70 would be exactly 1. Due to different volumes of distribution the response will be higher in the group with low BW and vice versa. Two cases (the responses are the means of groups):
- No period effects:
group BW sequence period treatment per. effect response
1 75 TR 1 T 1.00 0.933
1 75 TR 2 R 1.00 0.933
2 50 RT 1 R 1.00 1.400
2 50 RT 2 T 1.00 1.400
crossover
T = √0.933 × 1.400 = 1.143
R = √0.933 × 1.400 = 1.143
T/R = 100% (unbiased)
period 1
T = 0.933
R = 1.400
T/R = 67% (bias –33%)
period 2
T = 1.400
R = 0.933
T/R = 150% (bias +50%)
- Extremely unequal period effects:
group BW sequence period treatment per. effect response
1 75 TR 1 T 1.25 1.167
1 75 TR 2 R 1.25 1.167
2 50 RT 1 R 0.50 0.700
2 50 RT 2 T 0.50 0.700
crossover
T = √1.167 × 0.700 = 0.904
R = √1.167 × 0.700 = 0.904
T/R = 100% (unbiased)
period 1
T = 1.167
R = 0.700
T/R = 167% (bias +67%)
period 2
T = 0.700
R = 1.167
T/R = 60% (bias –40%)
One might be tempted to be prepared for the worst (i.e., bizarre deficiency letters) and aim at a stratified randomization keeping body weights as close as possible. But where will it end? Having a single slow metabolizer in one group and none in the other could already be the killer. Doesn’t make any sense.
—
Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна!![[image]](https://static.bebac.at/pics/Blue_and_yellow_ribbon_UA.png)
Helmut Schütz
![[image]](https://static.bebac.at/img/CC by.png)
The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮
Science Quotes
Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна!
![[image]](https://static.bebac.at/pics/Blue_and_yellow_ribbon_UA.png)
Helmut Schütz
![[image]](https://static.bebac.at/img/CC by.png)
The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮
Science Quotes
Complete thread:
- Good News, Bad News Datacollector 2019-07-27 12:09 [Study Assessment]
- Good News only Helmut 2019-07-27 13:15
- Good News only, but not according to some Datacollector 2019-07-27 13:34
- ’Some’ should read the GL (and again, and again) Helmut 2019-07-27 13:48
- Good News only, but not according to some ElMaestro 2019-07-27 13:50
- My stuff Helmut 2019-07-27 16:55
- My stuff ElMaestro 2019-07-27 17:38
- My stuff Datacollector 2019-07-27 19:13
- ≡Helmut 2019-07-27 23:53
- Sequence effect Vs Subject effect? mittyri 2019-07-28 15:19
- Sequence effect Vs Subject effect? Helmut 2019-07-28 15:59
- Sequence effect Vs Subject effect? mittyri 2019-07-28 16:20
- Oops! Helmut 2019-07-28 16:36
- Sequence effect Vs Subject effect? mittyri 2019-07-28 16:20
- Sequence effect Vs Subject effect? Helmut 2019-07-28 15:59
- Sequence effect Vs Subject effect? mittyri 2019-07-28 15:19
- ≡Helmut 2019-07-27 23:53
- My stuff Datacollector 2019-07-27 19:13
- My stuff ElMaestro 2019-07-27 17:38
- My stuff Helmut 2019-07-27 16:55
- Good News only, but not according to some Datacollector 2019-07-27 13:34
- Good News only Helmut 2019-07-27 13:15