Post-hoc power is useless! [Study Assessment]
Hi Detleffff and David,
Haha, this forum is sometimes a venue for extremists.


Upon careful deliberation together with my crew, I have decided to award you both a full point and none of you are lined up for keelhauling or flogging at the moment.
a. Detlefff, it is very true that posthoc power is often useless. It is too often used in a way that is not particularly informative and where clinical managers just seem to present the PHP in order to cling on to some dumb argument why they have conducted a good trial (even if it failed, of course).
b. David, I think you are trying to make a point which was not picked up by Detleffff: If the trial fails it could be due to chance, and it might suggest that some of our assumptions were not met. In such a situation we could plug in the observed CV and observed GMR in the power equation and I can see your point, it may actually be one little step towards getting a better understanding. We might achieve the same by looking separately at CV and observed GMR, but certainly PHP is better than nothing in this situation.
Having said this I, too, am not in too much favour of PHP; I am only writing this post because PHP exceptionally could have some limited use as David pointed out, even though alternatives to PHP in that situation would at least give the same info, if not more. But the more ways we can look at failures, the better we will understand them.
A good day to you both
Amen.
❝ Post-hoc power is useless! Search the forum to find numerous discussions on that topic.
❝ Have also a look at Helmut's lectures, especially about power and sample size estimation.
❝ For instance this one: "Sample Size Challenges in BE Studies and the Myth of Power"
Haha, this forum is sometimes a venue for extremists.



Upon careful deliberation together with my crew, I have decided to award you both a full point and none of you are lined up for keelhauling or flogging at the moment.
a. Detlefff, it is very true that posthoc power is often useless. It is too often used in a way that is not particularly informative and where clinical managers just seem to present the PHP in order to cling on to some dumb argument why they have conducted a good trial (even if it failed, of course).
b. David, I think you are trying to make a point which was not picked up by Detleffff: If the trial fails it could be due to chance, and it might suggest that some of our assumptions were not met. In such a situation we could plug in the observed CV and observed GMR in the power equation and I can see your point, it may actually be one little step towards getting a better understanding. We might achieve the same by looking separately at CV and observed GMR, but certainly PHP is better than nothing in this situation.
Having said this I, too, am not in too much favour of PHP; I am only writing this post because PHP exceptionally could have some limited use as David pointed out, even though alternatives to PHP in that situation would at least give the same info, if not more. But the more ways we can look at failures, the better we will understand them.
A good day to you both

Amen.
—
Pass or fail!
ElMaestro
Pass or fail!
ElMaestro
Complete thread:
- How to understand what is guilty? BE-proff 2016-07-30 18:21 [Study Assessment]
- How to understand what is guilty? ElMaestro 2016-07-30 23:15
- How to understand what is guilty? BE-proff 2016-08-02 17:06
- How to understand what is guilty? DavidManteigas 2016-08-08 11:18
- Post-hoc power is useless! d_labes 2016-08-09 08:31
- Post-hoc power is useless!ElMaestro 2016-08-09 13:00
- Post-hoc power is useless! d_labes 2016-08-09 14:30
- Post-hoc power is useless! ElMaestro 2016-08-09 16:17
- Post-hoc power is useless! d_labes 2016-08-09 14:30
- Post-hoc power is useless! DavidManteigas 2016-08-09 13:51
- Post-hoc power is useless! d_labes 2016-08-09 14:11
- Post-hoc power is useless!ElMaestro 2016-08-09 13:00
- Post-hoc power is useless! d_labes 2016-08-09 08:31
- How to understand what is guilty? ElMaestro 2016-07-30 23:15