CVs (borderline OT) [RSABE / ABEL]
Dear Dan,
Adding to this post in the spirit of this thread: We could calculate the width of the confidence interval of the CV taking into account the sample size to achieve the desired power. Try this one (with the default T/R 0.9 and target power 0.8)…
… which gives
Since the partial replicate (2×3×3) and the 3-period full replicate (2×2×3) have the same degrees of freedom (2n–3), the winner (i.e., narrower width of the CI) is always the one with the larger sample size. The “best” designs (highest dfs ⇒ narrowest CI) formated in green (including the 4-period full replicate, where df = 3n–4).
But as Detlew correctly pointed out, the “precision” of the CV is not a requirement of the GL and all designs perform pretty similar.
BTW, comparing variances – additionally to means – would require much larger sample sizes. This was one of the reasons why IBE was abandoned and the concept paper’s discussion point (see the end of this post) likely was not followed any further.
The comparison of standard errors entered through the back-door in FDA’s RSABE for NTIDs. Not only the acceptance range is scaled – which would mean 12 subjects for a CV of 7% (AR ~0.9–1.11), T/R 0.975, power 0.8…
… but the ratio of σWT/σWR must not exceed 2.5. Try
Due to the additional requirement and different implied limits (based on CVWR) the sample size almost doubles to 22 – even if CVs are equal (σWT = σWR = 0.0699). If the ratio with 2 is close to the limit (σWT = 0.0884, σWR = 0.0442), we would need 142! Only if the test is much better (reversed ratio), the penalty almost vanishes (14 subjects).
Of course you could as well assume that only the CVWT changes:
❝ […] the question is whether a replication in only half of ntotal is sufficient in order to scale or ???
Adding to this post in the spirit of this thread: We could calculate the width of the confidence interval of the CV taking into account the sample size to achieve the desired power. Try this one (with the default T/R 0.9 and target power 0.8)…
library(PowerTOST)
CV <- c(seq(0.3, 0.5, 0.05), seq(0.6, 0.8, 0.1), 1)
res <- matrix(nrow=length(CV), ncol=10, byrow=T,
dimnames=list(NULL, c("CV%",
"2×3×3: n |", "df |", "width",
"2×2×3: n |", "df |", "width",
"2×2×4: n |", "df |", "width")))
res[, 1] <- 100*CV
side <- "2-sided"
for(j in 1:length(CV)) {
res[j, 2] <- sampleN.scABEL(CV=CV[j], design="2x3x3", details=F, print=F)[[8]]
res[j, 3] <- 2*res[j, 2]-3
res[j, 4] <- diff(range(CVCL(CV=CV[j], df=res[j, 3], side=side)))
res[j, 5] <- sampleN.scABEL(CV=CV[j], design="2x2x3", details=F, print=F)[[8]]
res[j, 6] <- 2*res[j, 5]-3
res[j, 7] <- diff(range(CVCL(CV=CV[j], df=res[j, 6], side=side)))
res[j, 8] <- sampleN.scABEL(CV=CV[j], design="2x2x4", details=F, print=F)[[8]]
res[j, 9] <- 3*res[j, 8]-4
res[j,10] <- diff(range(CVCL(CV=CV[j], df=res[j, 9], side=side)))
}
print(as.data.frame(round(res, 4)), row.names=F)
… which gives
CV% 2×3×3: n | df | width 2×2×3: n | df | width 2×2×4: n | df | width
30 27 51 0.1267 26 49 0.1294 18 50 0.1280
35 30 57 0.1415 28 53 0.1471 20 56 0.1428
40 27 51 0.1749 30 57 0.1646 20 56 0.1662
45 30 57 0.1889 30 57 0.1889 20 56 0.1908
50 30 57 0.2144 32 61 0.2066 22 62 0.2048
60 36 69 0.2426 36 69 0.2426 24 68 0.2446
70 45 87 0.2619 46 89 0.2587 30 86 0.2635
80 57 111 0.2757 56 109 0.2783 38 110 0.2770
100 78 153 0.3197 76 149 0.3242 52 152 0.3208
Since the partial replicate (2×3×3) and the 3-period full replicate (2×2×3) have the same degrees of freedom (2n–3), the winner (i.e., narrower width of the CI) is always the one with the larger sample size. The “best” designs (highest dfs ⇒ narrowest CI) formated in green (including the 4-period full replicate, where df = 3n–4).
But as Detlew correctly pointed out, the “precision” of the CV is not a requirement of the GL and all designs perform pretty similar.
BTW, comparing variances – additionally to means – would require much larger sample sizes. This was one of the reasons why IBE was abandoned and the concept paper’s discussion point (see the end of this post) likely was not followed any further.
The comparison of standard errors entered through the back-door in FDA’s RSABE for NTIDs. Not only the acceptance range is scaled – which would mean 12 subjects for a CV of 7% (AR ~0.9–1.11), T/R 0.975, power 0.8…
library(PowerTOST)
CV <- 0.07
L <- exp(-log(1/0.9)/0.1*sqrt(log(0.1^2+1)))
U <- exp(+log(1/0.9)/0.1*sqrt(log(0.1^2+1)))
sampleN.TOST(CV=CV, theta0=0.975, theta1=L, theta2=U, details=F)
… but the ratio of σWT/σWR must not exceed 2.5. Try
library(PowerTOST)
CV <- 0.07
sep2s <- function(CV, ratio=1) { # split CV to s-ratio
sp <- CV2mse(CV) # pooled s²
# (1) (s²T + s²R)/2 = s²
# (2) sT/sR = ratio
# solve (1+2) for sT, sR
swt <- sqrt(2)*sqrt(sp)*ratio/sqrt(ratio^2+1)
swr <- sqrt(2)*sqrt(sp)/sqrt(ratio^2+1)
r <- se2CV(c(swt, swr))
return(r)
}
sampleN.NTIDFDA(theta0=0.975, CV=sep2s(CV=CV, ratio=1.0))
sampleN.NTIDFDA(theta0=0.975, CV=sep2s(CV=CV, ratio=2.0))
sampleN.NTIDFDA(theta0=0.975, CV=sep2s(CV=CV, ratio=0.5))
Due to the additional requirement and different implied limits (based on CVWR) the sample size almost doubles to 22 – even if CVs are equal (σWT = σWR = 0.0699). If the ratio with 2 is close to the limit (σWT = 0.0884, σWR = 0.0442), we would need 142! Only if the test is much better (reversed ratio), the penalty almost vanishes (14 subjects).
swt swr swt/swr CVwt CVwr CVwt/CVwr impl. limits n power
0.0699 0.0699 1.0 0.0700 0.0700 1.000 0.9290…1.0764 22 0.8299
0.0884 0.0442 2.0 0.0886 0.0442 2.003 0.9545…1.0477 142 0.8058
0.0442 0.0884 0.5 0.0442 0.0886 0.499 0.9110…1.0977 14 0.8478
Of course you could as well assume that only the CVWT changes:
swt swr swt/swr CVwt CVwr CVwt/CVwr impl. limits n power
0.1398 0.0699 2.0 0.1405 0.0700 2.007 0.9290…1.0764 128 0.8016
0.0350 0.0699 0.5 0.0350 0.0700 0.500 0.9290…1.0764 16 0.8284
—
Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна!
Helmut Schütz
The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮
Science Quotes
Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна!
Helmut Schütz
The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮
Science Quotes
Complete thread:
- 3 period full replicate Dr_Dan 2015-06-24 13:55 [RSABE / ABEL]
- 3 period full replicate ElMaestro 2015-06-24 14:11
- 3 period full replicate Helmut 2015-06-24 14:29
- 3 period full replicate d_labes 2015-06-24 14:38
- 3 period full replicate Dr_Dan 2015-06-24 16:43
- 3 period full replicate Helmut 2015-06-24 18:00
- 3 period full replicate ElMaestro 2015-06-24 18:11
- 3 period full replicate Helmut 2015-06-24 18:25
- 3 period full replicate d_labes 2015-06-25 08:52
- 3 period full replicate ElMaestro 2015-06-25 10:37
- 3 period full replicate d_labes 2015-06-25 08:52
- 3 period full replicate Helmut 2015-06-24 18:25
- 3 period full replicate ElMaestro 2015-06-24 18:11
- CVs (borderline OT)Helmut 2015-06-26 13:51
- CVs (R, T) from pooled CV d_labes 2015-07-02 09:09
- Answering an unasked question Helmut 2015-07-02 13:03
- Answer to an unasked answer d_labes 2015-07-02 14:21
- Bloody typo! Helmut 2015-07-02 14:33
- Answer to an unasked answer d_labes 2015-07-02 14:21
- Answering an unasked question Helmut 2015-07-02 13:03
- CVs (borderline OT) zizou 2015-07-05 19:20
- Degrees of freedom 3-period full replicate d_labes 2015-07-06 11:10
- Degrees of freedom 3-period full replicate ElMaestro 2015-07-06 11:59
- Degrees of freedom 3-period full replicate d_labes 2015-07-06 13:53
- Degrees of freedom 3-period full replicate zizou 2015-07-06 17:25
- Degrees of freedom 3-period full replicate ElMaestro 2015-07-06 11:59
- Degrees of freedom 3-period full replicate d_labes 2015-07-06 11:10
- CVs (R, T) from pooled CV d_labes 2015-07-02 09:09
- 3 period full replicate Helmut 2015-06-24 18:00
- 3 period full replicate Dr_Dan 2015-06-24 16:43
- The almighty oracle has spoken! Helmut 2015-07-23 23:54
- Almighty oracle's mysterious saying d_labes 2015-07-24 08:23