Fit individuals; ignore BQLs [NCA / SHAM]
❝ A few clarifications: this is data from healthy volunteers aged 18-45y who received a single oral dose. The values are arithmetic mean. We wish to estimate PK parameters. The LLOQ is 1.96
THX for the information. If you want to estimate PK parameters, you have to fit a PK model. Unless you go with Population PK, the LLOQ is irrelevant (only measured concentrations are used). Assuming that the mean curve reasonably reflects all subjects go with a two-compartment extravascular model with a lag-time. There are three possible parameterizations:
- Micro-constants: V1/F (volume of distribution of the central compartment / bioavailability), k01 (absorption rate constant), k12 & k21 (intercompartmental rate constants; central ↔ peripheral), k01 (elimination rate constant), and tlag (lag-time).
- Clearances: As above, but instead of k12, k21, and k01 clearances from the central and peripheral compartments and V2/F are fitted.
- Macro-constants: Data are fitted to a sum of three exponential terms; Ct=Aℯ–αt+Bℯ–βt+Cℯ–k01t
V1/F 0.5254
k01 0.9780
K10 0.2328
K12 0.09487
K21 0.06168
Tlag 0.3982
A 275.9
Alpha 0.3481
B 13.23
Beta 0.04125
CL/F 0.1223
V2/F 0.8082
CL×D/F 0.04984
Cmax 110.2
Tmax 2.097
AUC∞ 817.6
But here is the bioequivalence forum. In BE we may only use NCA (Noncompartmental Analysis). No model (PK parameters); only PK metrics (aka PK variables) derived by one of the variants of the trapezoidal rule to calculate AUCt and estimate λz. With my preferred method (the lin-up/log-down method and extrapolation based of the predicted Ct) I got:
Cmax 121.33
Tmax 2
λz 0.04145
Ct 0.64
Cpred 0.6796
AUCt 808.4
AUCinf 824.9
Vz/F 2.928
CL/F 0.1212
Note that λz from NCA (0.04145) is similar to β from the PK model (0.04125). This is not elimination (k01 0.2328), but a composite.
❝ 1. It was recommended in the Forum to use the last 4 time points for kel. Do we take the last four time points for each or look at the graph of each volunteer and decide (4 points for some and 3 or 5 for others)?
Where were 4 recommended? Doesn’t make sense. If I recall it correctly package bear for
You should fit as many time points as possible; the further ‘up the curve’ you can go (without leaving the linear range of log-transformed data) the better. Higher values are more reliable (analytical accuracy / precision). But: don’t go too far. The elimination must not be influenced by absorption (one-compartment) or distribution (two-compartments). That’s the reason behind the TTT-method and the inflection point. In your example 3 points are better than 4 (if compared to the model’s k10). Here the subjectivity comes in. My gut feeling suggested 3 and ElMaestro’s 4…

❝ 2. The last time point is 72 hours and there are several volunteers in whom no drug was detected. Do we write zero and include that into calculations or we do not take that time point at all for that particular volunteer ?
Fit subjects separately. Even if you get best fits from different numbers of samples after different formulations in the same subject, fine. In a 2×2 cross-over you get two fits/subject (e.g., test: 24-48-72, reference: 12-18-24-48). Write ‘BQL’ in the report. Zero will not work. Try it with
C:\WINDOWS\system32\calc.exe
: Set view to ‘scientific’, enter , click and see yourself what happens.Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна!
![[image]](https://static.bebac.at/pics/Blue_and_yellow_ribbon_UA.png)
Helmut Schütz
![[image]](https://static.bebac.at/img/CC by.png)
The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮
Science Quotes
Complete thread:
- which time points to use for calculation of kel Samir Malhotra 2012-06-12 10:59
- which time points to use for calculation of kel ElMaestro 2012-06-12 11:16
- which time points to use for calculation of kel Samir Malhotra 2012-06-12 11:28
- which time points to use for calculation of kel ElMaestro 2012-06-12 11:35
- which time points to use for calculation of kel Samir Malhotra 2012-06-12 11:59
- which time points to use for calculation of kel ElMaestro 2012-06-12 12:39
- Wetware required Helmut 2012-06-12 15:59
- Geometric, arithmetic, median ... ? d_labes 2012-06-12 16:28
- Geometric, arithmetic, median ... ? Helmut 2012-06-12 17:51
- Geometric, arithmetic, median ... ? d_labes 2012-06-13 08:53
- Geometric, arithmetic, median ... ? Helmut 2012-06-13 08:58
- Geometric, arithmetic, median ... ? d_labes 2012-06-13 08:53
- Geometric, arithmetic, median ... ? Helmut 2012-06-12 17:51
- Wetware required jag009 2012-06-12 17:38
- Wetware required Helmut 2012-06-12 19:50
- Wetware required jag009 2012-06-12 17:40
- Wetware required Helmut 2012-06-12 18:23
- Wetware required Samir Malhotra 2012-06-13 09:39
- Fit individuals; ignore BQLsHelmut 2012-06-13 20:33
- Wetware required Samir Malhotra 2012-06-13 09:39
- Wetware required Helmut 2012-06-12 18:23
- Geometric, arithmetic, median ... ? d_labes 2012-06-12 16:28
- Wetware required Helmut 2012-06-12 15:59
- which time points to use for calculation of kel ElMaestro 2012-06-12 12:39
- which time points to use for calculation of kel Samir Malhotra 2012-06-12 11:28
- which time points to use for calculation of kel ElMaestro 2012-06-12 11:16