Go for the referral [RSABE / ABEL]
Dear d_labes,
Neither. If I had to do something with a dossier based on a replicated study it would be the following:
So if the product is referred to CMD, there will be limited scientific discussion there because CMD is mainly a regulatory comittee. They are highly skilled in all procedural problems, but they are not statisticians or pharmacokinetophystians or what it's called (they can bring experts, but there is a limitation to that, too). So either approval or referral to the CHMP. This would be a great chance for you. Because you can openly address it and ask them to show you how one can analyse replicated studies without a mixed model and still get unbiased separate withins for T and R. Gotcha!
I have the greatest respect for the PK-subgroup, the CMD, the CHMP and EU regulators in general for all the work they undertake. But in this specific case I think the PK-subgroup has produced a document that is self-contradictory and not on par with current standards and which may result in rejection of equivalent products if the word of the guideline is followed. For that reason, I think that medicine consumers in Europe would have a potential benefit if someone like you engages the regulators in a game of chicken. It is only one sentence that needs to be changed in the guidance in order for everything to be ok.
Best regards
EM.
❝ So once again: Any idea how to do that? The Bear way, i.e same model as for 2x2? Helmuts suggestion? Any other?
Neither. If I had to do something with a dossier based on a replicated study it would be the following:
- Carry on with a linear mixed model.
- Construct the CI's and stuff as you ordinarily did before this guidance document was published.
- Wait and see!
So if the product is referred to CMD, there will be limited scientific discussion there because CMD is mainly a regulatory comittee. They are highly skilled in all procedural problems, but they are not statisticians or pharmacokinetophystians or what it's called (they can bring experts, but there is a limitation to that, too). So either approval or referral to the CHMP. This would be a great chance for you. Because you can openly address it and ask them to show you how one can analyse replicated studies without a mixed model and still get unbiased separate withins for T and R. Gotcha!
I have the greatest respect for the PK-subgroup, the CMD, the CHMP and EU regulators in general for all the work they undertake. But in this specific case I think the PK-subgroup has produced a document that is self-contradictory and not on par with current standards and which may result in rejection of equivalent products if the word of the guideline is followed. For that reason, I think that medicine consumers in Europe would have a potential benefit if someone like you engages the regulators in a game of chicken. It is only one sentence that needs to be changed in the guidance in order for everything to be ok.
Best regards
EM.
Complete thread:
- EMA: ANOVA and replicate studies d_labes 2010-03-05 10:51
- EMA: ANOVA and replicate studies Helmut 2010-03-05 14:17
- Orouboros mixed up d_labes 2010-03-09 09:33
- Orouboros mixed up Helmut 2010-03-09 14:55
- Liu ANOVA PtC d_labes 2010-03-11 11:07
- A walk on the wild side - the Bear way d_labes 2010-03-26 14:01
- New adventures from the Bear way d_labes 2010-03-29 16:17
- New adventures from the Bear way ElMaestro 2010-03-29 17:26
- Posology Helmut 2010-03-29 18:41
- Lost on the Bear way d_labes 2010-03-30 09:20
- Lost on the Bear way ElMaestro 2010-03-30 16:01
- Nice looking three-headed hydra mutant d_labes 2010-04-01 15:20
- Lost on the Bear way ElMaestro 2010-03-30 16:01
- Lost on the Bear way d_labes 2010-03-30 09:20
- Posology Helmut 2010-03-29 18:41
- New adventures from the Bear way ElMaestro 2010-03-29 17:26
- New adventures from the Bear way d_labes 2010-03-29 16:17
- Orouboros mixed up Helmut 2010-03-09 14:55
- Orouboros mixed up d_labes 2010-03-09 09:33
- EMA: ANOVA and replicate studies ElMaestro 2010-03-05 23:02
- Prayers quest d_labes 2010-03-09 09:02
- Go for the referralElMaestro 2010-03-09 19:02
- Prayers quest d_labes 2010-03-09 09:02
- EMA: ANOVA and replicate studies yjlee168 2010-03-08 03:23
- R: aov(), lm() and what does it mean? d_labes 2010-03-09 08:52
- EMA: ANOVA and replicate studies Helmut 2010-03-05 14:17