not randomized! [RSABE / ABEL]
Hi K2k,
Again: Vinay’s infamous
Imagine you have period effects of ±0, +20, +15, –10% and ‘true’ bioequivalence of both formulations, i.e., T1=T2=R=1. Responses in the four periods are expected to be P1=1+0=1, P2=1+1×20%=1.20, P3=1+1×15%=1.15, and P4=1–1×10%=0.90. Estimated treatment effects will be R=(P1+P2)/2=(1+1.20)/2=1.10, T1=P3=1.15, and T2=P4=0.90. GMRs will be T1/R=1.15/1.10=104.55% and T2/R=0.90/1.10=81.82%. That’s not the 100% we expect (biased due to lacking randomization).
Any cross-over design which is not randomized & balanced for treatments within periods cannot give unbiased treatment effects.
If you have read the entire thread (and the linked references) you would have noticed that it is not that easy.
Never apply anything you don’t completely comprehend.
PS: To quote Detlew:
PPS: What if both tests have similar GMRs? With which one would you perform the pivotal study? Would be nice to get some information about the products’ variances. Maybe we can work in the spirit of Balaam’s design?
Though I have some ideas…
Homework/exercise: Is the design balanced for period effects? And for carry-over?
Why don’t you simply run two separate fully replicated three period studies – and tell us afterwards how much CVWR differed between the two?
❝ How its not accounted for period effects?
Again: Vinay’s infamous
RRT1T2 is not randomized!Imagine you have period effects of ±0, +20, +15, –10% and ‘true’ bioequivalence of both formulations, i.e., T1=T2=R=1. Responses in the four periods are expected to be P1=1+0=1, P2=1+1×20%=1.20, P3=1+1×15%=1.15, and P4=1–1×10%=0.90. Estimated treatment effects will be R=(P1+P2)/2=(1+1.20)/2=1.10, T1=P3=1.15, and T2=P4=0.90. GMRs will be T1/R=1.15/1.10=104.55% and T2/R=0.90/1.10=81.82%. That’s not the 100% we expect (biased due to lacking randomization).
Any cross-over design which is not randomized & balanced for treatments within periods cannot give unbiased treatment effects.
❝ As per the Link http://forum.bebac.at/mix_entry.php?id=10358 Mr. d_labes suggested sequence for the same but sequence as changed little bit.
If you have read the entire thread (and the linked references) you would have noticed that it is not that easy.
❝ Shall i consider this sequence or not.
Never apply anything you don’t completely comprehend.
PS: To quote Detlew:
“I myself would not go with such a design due to the uncertainties involved.”
PPS: What if both tests have similar GMRs? With which one would you perform the pivotal study? Would be nice to get some information about the products’ variances. Maybe we can work in the spirit of Balaam’s design?
T1 R R T2
R T1 T2 R
R T2 R T1
T2 R T1 R
T2 T1 T2 T1
T1 T2 T1 T2
Though I have some ideas…
Homework/exercise: Is the design balanced for period effects? And for carry-over?
Why don’t you simply run two separate fully replicated three period studies – and tell us afterwards how much CVWR differed between the two?
T1 R T1 T2 R T2
R T1 R R T2 R
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Helmut Schütz
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Science Quotes
Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна!
![[image]](https://static.bebac.at/pics/Blue_and_yellow_ribbon_UA.png)
Helmut Schütz
![[image]](https://static.bebac.at/img/CC by.png)
The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮
Science Quotes
Complete thread:
- Three Formulation - Partial Replicate K2K 2013-10-18 10:05
- Three Formulation - Partial Replicate vinayshed 2013-10-28 08:42
- Randomization? Helmut 2013-10-28 12:11
- Randomization? vinayshed 2013-10-28 14:47
- Randomization? Helmut 2013-10-28 15:09
- Randomization? K2K 2013-10-29 10:10
- not randomized!Helmut 2013-10-29 13:14
- not randomized! K2K 2013-10-31 10:08
- CVwr Helmut 2013-10-31 16:25
- not randomized! K2K 2013-10-31 10:08
- not randomized!Helmut 2013-10-29 13:14
- Randomization? K2K 2013-10-29 10:10
- Randomization? Helmut 2013-10-28 15:09
- Randomization? vinayshed 2013-10-28 14:47
- Randomization? Helmut 2013-10-28 12:11
- Three Formulation - Partial Replicate vinayshed 2013-10-28 08:42
