Yeah but, no but, yeah but, no but… [Two-Stage / GS Designs]
❝ Don't overheat your machines .
Thanks for reminding me. Have to look – ah, 49% done so far.

❝ If you mean Method D
Oops, sure.
❝ I guess: also from some trial and error.
Here we are!
❝ Do you think doing some simulations in the planning phase and deciding the alpha's based on them will be acceptable to the mighty oracles in Europe?
Why not – since we don’t have a method which is not based on simulations. Obviously some regulators don’t trust PQRI’s simulations and are asking for a posteriori simulations of the actual n1 and CV – why shouldn’t they accept them if performed before the study?
❝ It's a similar question a good friend of our ol' pirate EM was once asked in respect to his method (see paper 6 of your post above):
❝ "Do you think that it is acceptable to any regulator in Europe that the alpha of stage 2 isn't chosen a priori but depending on the results of stage 1, again via some simulation studies?"
If one comes up with an αadj. through simulations, it will be fixed in both stages and can be specified in the protocol. BTW, the lacking acceptance of an adjusted α2 gives me headaches.
Results of 106 sims, n1 36, CV 30%:
1
Method B, αadj. 0.02942
Method B on steroids wo intermediate power, αadj. 0.0380 Ratio 1.25 │ Ratio 0.95
─────────────────────────────────────────┼─────────────────────────────────────
% in empiric │ % in empiric
n (5%, 50%, 95%) stage 2 α │ n (5%, 50%, 95%) stage 2 1-β
1 47.6 36 46 66 81.1 0.0397 │ 40.7 36 36 62 29.0 0.8379
2 44.3 36 42 60 70.63 0.047938 │ 39.0 36 36 56 22.43 0.84041
Risk I is maintained and we can expect a slight increase in power. ~23% less studies proceed to stage 2 (θ 0.95). May use 92.40% CI instead of 94.12%.
❝ What if the CV comes out other than supposed in the planning?
Good point! In order to be protected against that sims should cover a realistic (!) range of CVs (and n1 – drop outs!), not only the expected one. If the (mandatory?) a posteriori sim shows αemp. >0.05, bad luck. If we go with a fixed sample design instead and the CV turns out to be higher than expected we may fail as well. Part of the game. But let’s simulate. Method B on steroids wo power, αadj. 0.0380, but CV 35%.
Ratio 1.25 │ Ratio 0.95
──────────────────────────────────────┼─────────────────────────────────────
% in empiric │ % in empiric
n (5%, 50%, 95%) stage 2 α │ n (5%, 50%, 95%) stage 2 1-β
56.8 36 56 80 92.10 0.057127 │ 46.7 36 36 78 42.2 0.83226
Ouch! Bad idea. Should have payed more attention to our ol’ pirate’s Figure 3; below transformed into a contour plot:
![[image]](img/uploaded/image114.png)
Try this goodie (enlarge the plot and drag around):
require(rgl)
x <- seq(12, 60, by = 12)
y <- seq(10, 100, by = 10)
B <- matrix(data = c(
0.0297,0.0463,0.0437,0.0344,0.0309,0.0297,0.0294,0.0292,0.0289,0.0291,
0.0294,0.0320,0.0475,0.0433,0.0338,0.0307,0.0299,0.0298,0.0298,0.0298,
0.0294,0.0294,0.0397,0.0485,0.0420,0.0333,0.0306,0.0303,0.0296,0.0298,
0.0292,0.0292,0.0324,0.0458,0.0484,0.0399,0.0328,0.0303,0.0297,0.0297,
0.0294,0.0297,0.0296,0.0409,0.0483,0.0466,0.0381,0.0318,0.0300,0.0301),
nrow = 5, ncol = 10, byrow = TRUE, dimnames = NULL)
rownames(B) <- as.character(x)
colnames(B) <- paste(as.character(y),"%")
persp3d(x, y, B,
xlim = c(12, 60), xlab = "n1",
ylim = c(10, 100), ylab = "CV%",
zlim = c(0.025, 0.05), zlab = "empiric alpha",
main = "Potvin B (Table I)",
aspect = c(1, 4/3, 1),
color = rgb(0.7, 0.9, 1, 0.75), smooth = TRUE, lit = TRUE)
αemp. is ~0.05 if we are both close to the intended n1 and expected CV but drops rapidly to ~αadj. otherwise. In other words the level becomes conservative. I still think that it should be possible to raise αadj. but with great caution and only after a lot of simulations.
Example: What can we do if we plan for n1 36, CV 30% and what will happen if the CV is higher? From the above we guess that our αadj. for 30% is limited by the maximum possible αemp. at CV 40%.
1
Method B, αadj. 0.0294, 2
Method B on steroids wo power, αadj. 0.0303, 106 sims.CV 30% Ratio 1.25 │ Ratio 0.95
─────────────────────────────────────────┼─────────────────────────────────────
% in empiric │ % in empiric
n (5%, 50%, 95%) stage 2 α │ n (5%, 50%, 95%) stage 2 1-β
1 47.6 36 46 66 81.1 0.0397 │ 40.7 36 36 62 29.0 0.8379
2 47.1 36 46 66 79.82 0.040450 │ 40.5 36 36 60 28.08 0.83735
CV 40% Ratio 1.25 │ Ratio 0.95
─────────────────────────────────────────┼─────────────────────────────────────
% in empiric │ % in empiric
n (5%, 50%, 95%) stage 2 α │ n (5%, 50%, 95%) stage 2 1-β
1 78.3 48 78 112 97.0 0.0485 │ 67.3 36 70 112 66.3 0.8236
2 66.3 36 68 110 96.95 0.049704 │ 66.3 36 68 110 65.47 0.82377
CV 50% Ratio 1.25 │ Ratio 0.95
─────────────────────────────────────────┼─────────────────────────────────────
% in empiric │ % in empiric
n (5%, 50%, 95%) stage 2 α │ n (5%, 50%, 95%) stage 2 1-β
1 116.8 74 116 166 98.5 0.0420 │127.7 36 116 166 90.8 0.8052
2 115.5 72 114 166 98.41 0.043799 │111.1 36 114 166 90.25 0.80468
Have we gained something substantially? Not at all. With 50% we have crossed the ridge at 40% and don’t have to worry any more. Maybe that’s really a stupid idea and not worth the efforts – only to come up with a slightly narrower 93.94% CI.
After all this stuff coming back to your question again….
❝ Do you think doing some simulations in the planning phase and deciding the alpha's based on them will be acceptable to the mighty oracles in Europe?
Taking the GL and the Dutch deficiency letter from above into account at least adaption of α2 seems to be very tough. Coincidentally I have heard the term ‘cookbook’ for the first time from a Dutch regulator back in 2004. Little chances for ‘true’ adaptive designs.

Now for the positive part. If one follows Method B, IMHO a posteriori simulations are not necessary if the study was planned with a n1 corresponding to max. αemp.. That would mean that we are already on ‘top of the ridge’. What could happen?
- Drop-outs: We go left in the plot and see the test becomes conservative.
- Higher/lower CV than expected: We go up/down towards conservative levels.
![[image]](img/uploaded/image115.png)
If we plan the study with a n1 like a fixed design, power will be always >80% because we get a ‘second chance’ of showing BE in stage 2 (e.g., CV 30%, Power 81.6% for n 40 in a fixed design but ~85% with n1 40).
Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна!
![[image]](https://static.bebac.at/pics/Blue_and_yellow_ribbon_UA.png)
Helmut Schütz
![[image]](https://static.bebac.at/img/CC by.png)
The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮
Science Quotes
Complete thread:
- two-stage design power 90% second stage Yvonne 2012-08-02 09:50
- two-stage design power 90% second stage ElMaestro 2012-08-02 10:17
- two-stage design power 90% second stage Yvonne 2012-08-02 11:47
- two-stage design power 90% second stage ElMaestro 2012-08-02 11:54
- two-stage design power 90% second stage Yvonne 2012-08-02 11:47
- two-stage design power 90% in sample size adaption d_labes 2012-08-02 10:33
- two-stage design power 90% in sample size adaption ElMaestro 2012-08-02 11:29
- two-stage design power 90% in sample size adaption Yvonne 2012-08-02 12:06
- two-stage design power 90% in sample size adaption ElMaestro 2012-08-02 16:59
- two-stage design power 90% in sample size adaption Yvonne 2012-08-02 12:06
- two-stage design power 90% in sample size adaption ElMaestro 2012-08-02 11:29
- Are simulations sufficient? …lenghty post! Helmut 2012-08-02 17:39
- adjusted alpha = 0.045 d_labes 2012-08-03 11:33
- adjusted alpha = 0.038 Helmut 2012-08-03 14:26
- adjusted alpha by sims? d_labes 2012-08-03 15:48
- Yeah but, no but, yeah but, no but…Helmut 2012-08-03 16:39
- Yeah but, no but ... d_labes 2012-08-07 14:42
- Yeah but, no but ... Helmut 2012-08-07 15:14
- Yeah but, no but ... d_labes 2012-08-07 14:42
- Yeah but, no but, yeah but, no but…Helmut 2012-08-03 16:39
- adjusted alpha by sims? d_labes 2012-08-03 15:48
- adjusted alpha = 0.038 Helmut 2012-08-03 14:26
- adjusted alpha = 0.045 d_labes 2012-08-03 11:33
- two-stage design power 90% second stage ElMaestro 2012-08-02 10:17