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Nirali
Regular

India,
2009-09-23 07:27

Posting: # 4233
Views: 7,544
 

 SAS or WinNonlin for Pharmacokinetics [Software]

Dear All,

Is SAS software better to calculate Pharmacokinetic parameters for BE studies compared to WinNonlin?

Currently, we have WinNonlin for PK calculations and SAS for statistical analysis. We are under planning to move for PK calculations from WinNonlin to SAS.

Kindly suggest is it advisable to calculate PK from SAS?
Also, suggest advantages and disadvantages to use SAS for PK calculation, if any.


Thanks in advance.
Nirali


Edit: Category changed. [Helmut]
Helmut
Hero
Homepage
Vienna, Austria,
2009-09-23 13:16

@ Nirali
Posting: # 4237
Views: 7,415
 

 SAS or WinNonlin for Pharmacokinetics

Dear Nirali!

» Is SAS software better to calculate Pharmacokinetic parameters for BE studies compared to WinNonlin?

Define 'better'. I guess you are talking about NCA (Noncompartmental Analysis) only.

» Currently, we have WinNonlin for PK calculations and SAS for statistical analysis.

You are not alone. Many pharmaceutical companies and CROs do it exactly this way. Just have a look at the literature.

» We are under planning to move for PK calculations from WinNonlin to SAS.

Why?!

» Kindly suggest is it advisable to calculate PK from SAS?

Why do you want to reinvent the wheel? WinNonlin is software specialized in PK, whereas SAS is not.

» Also, suggest advantages and disadvantages to use SAS for PK calculation, if any.

You must be aware that you have to write your own macros in SAS. A basic one (for AUC, λz, Cmax, tmax, CL/F, V/F, t½) is given here.
There might be others; consider visiting SAS’ forums.
Writing macros for more sophisticated PK metrics (MRT, partial areas, time above MIC, etc.) would require a deep knowledge of PK. But this is just my biased POV. Maybe we get a different opinion from our SAS-expert in the forum,
[image] D. Labes…

[image]All the best,
Helmut Schütz 
[image]

The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. ☼
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d_labes
Hero

Berlin, Germany,
2009-09-24 15:30

@ Helmut
Posting: # 4243
Views: 6,968
 

 To SAS or not to SAS

Dear Helmut!

full ACK with all your points! :yes:

With one exception:

You will get better control over what is going on if you roll your own.
Your post about trusters contains an excellent compilation why this could be advantageous to someone.

And all these Do nots were the reason why I took the profession of a wheel-reinventer some times ago.

But also true, one has to spent a lot of time in reinventing the wheel from scratch.
And let me emphasize it again for all who wanted also go out and learn the profession a wheel-reinventer with SAS as their toolbox: You must know what you do!
  • You need a deep understanding of all PK!
  • The SAS macro language (some sort of Schti) you have to deal with is a beasty beast within the beast!
Don't say you were not warned!

Regards,

Detlew
Helmut
Hero
Homepage
Vienna, Austria,
2009-09-24 16:48

@ d_labes
Posting: # 4245
Views: 7,098
 

 To reinvent the wheel

Dear D. Labes!

» You will get better control over what is going on if you roll your own.

Right!

» And all these Do nots were the reason why I took the profession of a wheel-reinventer some times ago. But also true, one has to spent a lot of time in reinventing the wheel from scratch.

I made this both satisfying and painful experience myself. First on a TI-59. When I started coding on a HP9000-workstation in 1981 there were only two PK-software packages for mainframes available (NONLIN and SAAM) and one for the WANG VS minicomputer. Nothing (!) for NCA and BE. So I had no choice anyhow. But it was great fun developing formulas for the trapezoidal rule and extrapolation for MRT and VRT and the like. :-D
I wouldn’t miss it; learned a lot…

[image]All the best,
Helmut Schütz 
[image]

The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. ☼
Science Quotes
Nirali
Regular

India,
2009-10-01 11:08

@ Helmut
Posting: # 4281
Views: 6,688
 

 To reinvent the wheel

Thank You for guidance.

Regards,
Nirali
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