drgopal
☆    

India,
2007-08-18 10:22
(6534 d 11:10 ago)

Posting: # 991
Views: 7,294
 

 Diagnostics [Bioanalytics]

Dear all,

Can anyone tell me from where to take the reference ranges for the laboratory values in the diagnostics .Is there a standard reference book/site from where the values could be considered.Can we have a separate acceptable range on our own (+/- 10-15% of the range) as our company's range beside the reference range?

Thanking you in advance
drgopal
Helmut
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Vienna, Austria,
2007-08-18 17:05
(6534 d 04:26 ago)

@ drgopal
Posting: # 993
Views: 6,299
 

 Reference ranges

Dear drgopal!

❝ Can anyone tell me from where to take the reference ranges for the laboratory values in the diagnostics .


You should ask the clinical laboratory for their current ranges.

❝ Is there a standard reference book/site from where the values could be considered.


Google is your friend and comes up with 2Mio+ hits.

The normal range for any measured parameter is the 95% confidence interval gained from evaluation of a large sample of obviously healthy subjects.
Although you will find roughly similar ranges stated by different labs, these values may differ because of distinct
  • analytical methods,
  • reagents used,
  • standards employed,...
It's not uncommon that labs change their reference ranges for some parameters twice a year... ;-)
If you really want to do statistics on clinical chemistry in a BE study (I haven't seen this anyhow) and have to struggle with changed normal ranges in the shift analysis, you may consider standardisation of normal ranges.
For a reference see:
Chapter 12.5 (Analysis of Laboratory Data), in:
S-C Chow and J-p Liu
Design and Analysis of Clinical Trials
John Wiley, New York, pp 560-571 (1998)

❝ Can we have a separate acceptable range on our own (+ 10-15% of the range) as our company's range beside the reference range?


This doesn't make sense, since the normal range is a 95% confidence interval of healthy subjects. +10-15% would include all values.
It's quite common that some values (of the >20 measured ones) in a healthy subject are outside the reference range. This does not necessarily mean that the subject is ill (actually we would expect this for 1/20 of subjects for any parameter). Therefore each value must be assessed in synopsis with related ones, the medical history of the subject, etc. by a competent investigator.
Example: one value for GGT, GOT, GPT outside the range shouldn't be a problem, but all of them should be of concern.
In all protocols I've seen in the last 25+ years the investigator rated every value outside the normal range as either 'ncs' (not clinically significant) or 'cs' (clinically significant), where only the latter lead to exlusion in screening or to a follow-up in the post-treatment assessment.

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Ohlbe
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France,
2007-08-21 21:18
(6531 d 00:14 ago)

@ drgopal
Posting: # 1004
Views: 6,063
 

 Diagnostics

Dear drgopal,

❝ Can we have a separate acceptable range on our own (+/- 10-15% of the range) as our company's range beside the reference range?


In addition to Helmut's response: if you were to adopt such a system you would need to discuss the extended range on a parameter-by parameter basis, not just extend everything by 10 %. This would be OK for e.g. SGOT - 44 IU/l instead of 40 is no big deal, if the elevation is isolated. But take sodium, with normal ranges of 135-145 mmol/l. Extending the range to 122-159 would definitively not be acceptable ! And once again you can't interpret each parameter separately, you also have to look at the complete picture. And this is the investigator's job, not an SOP's.

Regards
Ohlbe
drgopal
☆    

India,
2007-08-25 10:58
(6527 d 10:33 ago)

@ Ohlbe
Posting: # 1017
Views: 6,119
 

 Diagnostics

Dear all,

Thanks for the reply. Just one more clarification. We have got our inhouse Diagnostics and we run the internal quality standards on the day the samples are analised. Do we still require a Pathologist to countersign the reports? Is it absolutely necessary or our our technician's signature in the reports (after taking printout from the instruments) is sufficient?
Similarly who can certify the ECG and X-ray reports? Can the Physician/Investigator (medicine graduate only) can certify or it has to be certified by a relevant specialist? What is the regulatory requirement?

Thanking you in advance.

drgopal
Ohlbe
★★★

France,
2007-08-27 02:16
(6525 d 19:15 ago)

@ drgopal
Posting: # 1020
Views: 6,014
 

 Diagnostics

Dear drgopal,

❝ Do we still require a Pathologist to countersign the reports? Is it absolutely necessary or our our technician's signature in the reports (after taking printout from the instruments) is sufficient?


❝ Can the Physician/Investigator (medicine graduate only) can certify or it has to be certified by a relevant specialist?


❝ What is the regulatory requirement?


The regulatory requirement will be purely National...

On a GCP point of view and IMHO: you don't need a cardiologist's signature on an ECG if your investigator or another physician reviewing the ECG is qualified both by training and experience. Regarding chest X-rays if they are done externally you should get a report along with the slide, with an interpretation from a specialist. If the X-ray is done internally IMHO you don't need a specialist if your investigator/physician reviewing the ECG is qualified. This qualification should be documented.

Regarding lab reports: I may be influenced by the French regulations in this matter, but I would recommend a signature by a pathologist. The investigator/physician is qualified to interpret the result, but the role of the pathologist, besides checking that everything went well during the analysis (which includes results of QC samples but also equipment maintenance etc.) is also to check the credibility and consistency of the various results for the subject at this visit (e.g. if SGOT is 5 IU/l and SGPT is 400 IU/L, something probably went wrong somewhere and the test should be repeated, even if the QC results are OK) and from one visit to the next. This goes far beyond the responsibilities and qualifications of the technician. In France our guidelines state that the validation of the results is in two steps: analytical validation by the technician, biological validation by the pathologist. Check also in your national regulations and guidelines on path labs.

Regards
Ohlbe
drgopal
☆    

India,
2007-08-27 13:25
(6525 d 08:06 ago)

@ Ohlbe
Posting: # 1026
Views: 6,102
 

 Diagnostics

Dear Ohlbe,

Thanks for the reply. Any special training on ECG is needed or simply the medicine graduation itself speaks about it? Kindly clarify training and experience.

So we need a qualified radiologist and a pathologist to certify ECG and X-Ray. Am I right?
Ohlbe
★★★

France,
2007-08-27 14:33
(6525 d 06:58 ago)

@ drgopal
Posting: # 1031
Views: 6,071
 

 Qualification of staff

Dear drgopal,

Please refer to your National regulations. I don't know in which country you are operating as this is not mentioned in your user info.

❝ Any special training on ECG is needed or simply the medicine graduation itself speaks about it? Kindly clarify training and experience.


How much do medicine graduates learn about ECGs in your country, and how often do they review ECGs before they graduate ? Your physician should be able to read and interpret ECGs and to recognise an abnormal ECG when he sees one. Meaning that he should have learnt to read ECGs during his studies and that he should have practical experience in reading them, not just what he learnt in the books.

❝ So we need a qualified radiologist and a pathologist to certify ECG and X-Ray.Am I right?


You need a qualified radiologist to read X-rays if they are done in-house and your physician is not qualified to read them. Here again, qualification means that he has read the books/taken the courses, but also that he has a practical experience in interpreting normal and abnormal X-rays. Regarding clinical lab data I would strongly recommend you to have a pathologist to supervise the labs and review the results, but this is just my personal opinion. Once again, please read your own National laws and regulations.

Regards
Ohlbe
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