KG ☆ India, 2014-06-23 16:47 (4034 d 19:44 ago) Posting: # 13127 Views: 7,191 |
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Dear Sir, Why Geometric mean is taken in to consideration in BE studies. Why not arithmetic mean?? I would like to understand concept behind that. thanks KG |
Helmut ★★★ ![]() ![]() Vienna, Austria, 2014-06-23 17:20 (4034 d 19:11 ago) @ KG Posting: # 13129 Views: 6,430 |
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Hi KG, ❝ Dear Sir, ↑↑↑↑ Not interested in opinions of female members of the Forum? ❝ Why Geometric mean is taken in to consideration in BE studies. Why not arithmetic mean?? There is a consensus – for decades – that AUC and Cmax (like many biological variables) follow a lognormal (rather than a normal) distribution. Whereas the arithmetic mean is the best unbiased estimator of location for the normal distribution, the best estimator for the lognormal distribution is the geometric mean. Justification for the lognormal distribution in BE:
<nitpicking> The distribution of data is not relevant, only the intra-subject residuals from the model. However, using the geometric means – or adjusted means in case of imbalanced sequences (SAS-lingo: least squares means) – is in line with the log-transformation / multiplicative model. </nitpicking>— Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! ![]() Helmut Schütz ![]() The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |
ElMaestro ★★★ Denmark, 2014-06-23 23:42 (4034 d 12:49 ago) @ Helmut Posting: # 13130 Views: 6,179 |
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Hi KG, sorry for partially hijacking your thread: Hi Helmut, ❝ Justification for the lognormal distribution in BE: ❝ (...) ❝ ● Serial dilutions in bioanalytics lead to multiplicative errors. I can see that diluting X times would lead to the error being multiplied by X, but is this really a proper argument for using the multiplicative model in BE in any way? I can't readily see how it fits in. For simplicity we can consider just Cmax: Since dilution (as in dilution integrity) affects a subset of the samples, any impact on the error will be on just those samples. This would just speak against any parametric method, unless someone can make a parametric bi-modal model, right? Or perhaps you referred to the plain dilution any sample undergoes during the assay? I still can't see how this fits in the argumentation. Let me please know your thoughts. Especially if there is a potential for simulating something, haha ![]() — Pass or fail! ElMaestro |
Helmut ★★★ ![]() ![]() Vienna, Austria, 2014-06-24 18:19 (4033 d 18:12 ago) @ ElMaestro Posting: # 13134 Views: 6,080 |
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Hi ElMaestro, ❝ I can see that diluting X times would lead to the error being multiplied by X,… You are on the right track. By serial dilutions I mean the way we go from the primary stock solution to various spiking solutions. Since in every step we transfer a small volume to a large one, the error is multiplicative. Don’t force me to go back to my chemistry textbooks I haven’t touched for 35+ years. ![]() ❝ …but is this really a proper argument for using the multiplicative model in BE in any way? I can't readily see how it fits in. For simplicity we can consider just Cmax: Since dilution (as in dilution integrity) affects a subset of the samples, any impact on the error will be on just those samples. The problems in calibration (aka inverse regression) are manifold. The common model assumes that the regressor (here concentration) is free of any error – all error is in the regressand (the measurement). Is this true? Obviously not. Lower concentrations generally are spiked with solutions which were more often diluted. In other words the higher variability / imprecision we observe in lower concentrations is only partly due the inherently error in the measurement (fluctuations in flow more influential on small peaks, lower signal/noise-ratio of the electronic components, ![]()
❝ This would just speak against any parametric method, unless someone can make a parametric bi-modal model, right? Oh, boy! ❝ […] Let me please know your thoughts. Especially if there is a potential for simulating something, haha I’ll give you some insights into one of my projects which stays for years on the bottom of my to-do-pile. More simulations than one can take. Steps:
— Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! ![]() Helmut Schütz ![]() The quality of responses received is directly proportional to the quality of the question asked. 🚮 Science Quotes |