Bioequivalence and Bioavailability Forum

Type III kuddel muddel [🇷 for BE/BA]

posted by Helmut  – Vienna, Austria, 2015-06-12 13:27 (4021 d 17:16 ago) – Posting: # 14948
Views: 17,396

Dear Detlew & all,

❝ WinNonlin/Phoenix uses a different form of F-Tests (not based on Type III sos) AFAIK.

Yes. An excerpt of the manual here and an example there. There is no guaran­tee that Phoenix/WinNonlin and SAS will be that close in all cases.

❝ So what can we suggest to Yung-jin w.r.t. the ANOVA?

❝ SAS way, Phoenix way, R's drop1() (which doesn't work for sequence) or what else?

Duno. We explored package lsmeans in this lengthy thread without a final con­clusion. For the R-com­mu­nity’s “dogma” see Venables’ paper* (section 5).

❝ […] the primary concern, the 90% CI as bioequivalence measure doesn't depend in any way from such considerations. Thank goodness!

❝ But regulators like to see some sort of effect tests in the ANOVA. Which one is their secret

I would rather say “[…] by which software and/or coding is their secret”. I never gave anything but the PE and CI in the main text of my reports (the complete eva­lu­ation only in the appendix). Although some assessors or inspectors routinely re­cal­cu­late studies (in SAS or in the semi-secret WinBE?) I never received a ques­tion. Maybe they compared only the CI, which – as you said – is the only relevant part.

When it comes to the type III stuff I gather that it will be practically impossible (e.g., Phoenix/WinNonlin) or difficult (R?) to exactly reproduce SAS’ results. AFAIK only SPSS uses the same algo as SAS.

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• Venables WN. Exegeses on Linear Models. S-PLUS User’s Conference Washington, DC, 8–9^th October, 1998.  free resouce.

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PS: Kuddelmuddel ~ hash, jumble, mess…

—
Dif-tor heh smusma 🖖🏼 Довге життя Україна! 
Helmut Schütz


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Science Quotes

Complete thread:

• R code for lm.mod does not make sense dmfisher 2015-06-09 03:55 [🇷 for BE/BA] 
  • R code for lm.mod does not make sense yjlee168 2015-06-09 17:57
    • R code for lm.mod does not make sense ElMaestro 2015-06-09 21:07
      • R code for lm.mod does not make sense yjlee168 2015-06-10 11:34
        • R code for lm.mod does not make sense ElMaestro 2015-06-10 14:22
          • R code for lm.mod does not make sense yjlee168 2015-06-11 09:44
            • Reference datasets Helmut 2015-06-11 11:50
              • Reference datasets ElMaestro 2015-06-11 12:01
                • Reference datasets yjlee168 2015-06-11 22:16
                • Type III kuddel muddel d_labes 2015-06-12 09:04
                  • Type III kuddel muddelHelmut 2015-06-12 11:27
                    • ANOVA F-test results and regulators d_labes 2015-06-12 15:23
                      • ANOVA F-test results and regulators ElMaestro 2015-06-12 15:29
                        • ANOVA F-test results and regulators d_labes 2015-06-12 15:44
                          • ANOVA F-test results and regulators ElMaestro 2015-06-12 15:52
                  • Type III again ElMaestro 2015-06-12 12:18
                    • SAS OT d_labes 2015-06-12 15:32
              • Reference datasets yjlee168 2015-06-11 19:56
              • Test hypothesis of using Type I/III MS... yjlee168 2015-06-12 09:01
    • R code for lm.mod does not make sense dmfisher 2015-06-10 01:38